Author Topic: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol  (Read 15517 times)

ataylor

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2012, 12:53:30 PM »
He means that dealers will discount the list price of a BTO guitar just like they will a standard model. I'm not going to post details because of pricing rules on the forum, but if you do some asking around, you'll find what the "standard" percentage typically is.

And many will not discount it the same amount.

There's really no reason for them to; It's a custom guitar.

Why should a dealer discount it as much?

You're right -- not everyone would discount it the same amount. As for the comment originally questioned, he specifically mentioned several places he could recommend via PM or email. I didn't say everyone would discount it the same amount, but to clarify my comments, dealers will typically discount their custom guitars about the same way they do their regular guitars. Dealers that charge more for regular guitars will often charge more for custom orders; dealers that offer a higher discount (this is the "standard" percentage I was referring to) often will apply the same to custom models. That's my experience and impression, anyway. Your mileage may vary.

If there was only one dealer from which to order a custom guitar, I'd be inclined to agree that there's no reason for them to be competitive in their pricing. But since that's not the case there are some dealers who will offer more aggressive pricing than others. I'm no economist, but it makes sense to me.
2005 Taylor 210 (sitka/sapele)

Jannie

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2012, 08:45:14 PM »
Sorry it led to this, I have plenty of information and PM's with some great reference and guidance. Thank you everyone.

jjrpilot-admin

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2012, 08:59:23 PM »
Everything is ok.  Remember that we love Taylor guitars and that's what unites us.   :)
Col 1:15 "that in everything He might be preeminent."
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michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2012, 09:07:56 PM »
hi Jannie,
i hope that you get a chance to read this before 'writing this thread off', which i felt was an excellent question

imho, a BTO, in many cases, is a 'pre-sold' guitar & granted there are some dealers that special order
'non-standard' or custom spec guitars, i believe that the 'risk' is that with all the options available,
a person could find a BTO guitar that has all the features that one desires, including tone & playbility
if they are able to play the guitar first-hand, except for 'one' (i.e binding, rosette, fretmarkers, etc),
which could  make that particular guitar a 'dealer-breaker' & then in turn might  take the BTO route
if  they were willing to take a chance on purchasing a guitar that would be sight unseen (& also unplayed) -
there are some dealers that i've seen that will charge more  than MAP, when a guitar has a single
'non-standard' option on it & in the past, i've seen it happen, even when the option was a 'no-upcharge'

if the guitar is pre-sold, in most cases, the guitar should  spend little time at a dealer before it is either
shipped to the customer or is picked from the , which may  or may not  be the case with a 'in-stock' model,
so in terms of having an investment 'tied-up' in a guitar, i would figure an older stock model might be more likely
to be discounted more, but a BTO model should  be discounted the same rate as a current year in-stock model, imho

the standard 12 fret models are currently cedar/mahogany (added this year) & sitka/rosewood &
i am not certain that there are 'modify-a-model' top-swap options allowed on these 2 guitars
(i.e. sitka or engelmann/mahogany or cedar or engelmann/rosewood) & if i am interpreting what
i've read in the latest Wood & Steel correctly, 'top-swaps' on 12 frets (& baritones) are BTO only -
that being said, if these 2 guitars were put into the standard line, i believe they would be considered
GC5ce & GC8ce 12 fret models, as the aesthetic appointments are the closest to the GC5/8 models

if  BTO orders for cedar/rosewood (GC7) & sitka/maple (GC6) 12 frets were to reach the point to
where the 12 fret models were completely phased-in, perhaps even having the same appointments as
the acoustic electric models (5/6/7/8/912ce-12 fret), then a likely progression might  be a 412ce-12 fret,
followed by a 312ce-12 fret, as this has happened with the grand symphony body quite recently, with the
416ce added in 11, along with the 316ce, 356ce & 456ce models this year ... pure speculation on my part

going by what the current model line is, & again i am basing this on past & current & it is pure speculation,
as there would be little difference in price between a 416ce, no ES & a GS4, 316ce, no ES & a GS3,
i believe there would need to be a great  deal of interest in non-cutaway GS sapele & ovangkol
models before those  were added, as there have been few non-cutaway GS4 models (07 GS4eLTD)
in the past, compared to a very large number of 416ceLTDs (09 Spring & Fall, 10 & 11 Spring & 11 Fall)

thusly, depending on the interest in a 412ce-12 fret & 312ce-12 fret, the GC3-12 fret & GC4-12 fret could
be phased in at that time, however the price difference between them would likely be quite small as well
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:16:57 PM by michaelw »
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ataylor

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2012, 09:13:24 PM »
hi Jannie,
the standard 12 fret models are currently cedar/mahogany (added this year) & sitka/rosewood &
i am not certain that there are 'modify-a-model' top-swap options allowed on these 2 guitars
(i.e. sitka or engelmann/mahogany or cedar or engelmann/rosewood) & if i am interpreting what
i've read in the latest Wood & Steel correctly, 'top-swaps' on 12 frets (& baritones) are BTO only -
that being said, if these 2 guitars were put into the standard line, i believe they would be considered
GC5ce & GC8ce 12 fret models, as the aesthetic appointments are the closest to the GC5/8 models


It looks like they're doing sitka on mahogany, so I imagine they'd do cedar on rosewood.

http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/11998/Taylor-12-Fret-Mahogany-AcousticElectric-Guitar-Natural/


my font is too hard to read with the forum configuration ... sorry
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:18:25 PM by michaelw »
2005 Taylor 210 (sitka/sapele)

michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2012, 09:30:53 PM »
It looks like they're doing sitka on mahogany, so I imagine they'd do cedar on rosewood.

http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/11998/Taylor-12-Fret-Mahogany-AcousticElectric-Guitar-Natural/
:o
you're right :)

for some reason, i thought this one might have been a custom model also
http://davesguitar.com/products/taylor/12-fret-mahogany-2012-version/
but the pricing is the same as a standard model ... hmm ???

again, specifications subject to change without notice

thanks for the link, ataylor :D

hmm ... looking a little closer, i see that the guitar in the link is a 2011 model -
i think i'll contact dave's guitar shop to verify the top on their 2012 model is spruce  :-\

just curious ???
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 12:22:41 AM by michaelw »
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Jannie

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2012, 12:38:29 AM »
After reading everyone's posts and looking at the guitars on the Taylor website, I really doubt a 12 Fret GC3 or 12 Fret GC4 would have much priority, or by the time they did make them, I'll be so connecte with my GC3 that it's all I want to play. I try not to flit around much, once I Do get finally settled. I tend to look at such things at this stage of life with the question of do I like this well enough to want it for the rest of my life. Now granted I'm thinkin more about the rest of my playing years which I hope wil continue well into my eighties, which is still a ways away. But it is a way to judge value.

michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2012, 01:29:53 AM »
hi Jannie,
i was just thinking & i was wondering if the next time you're changing strings, if
you might consider trying a set of Elixir NanoWeb medium light gauge (.012 - .056),
tuning down half a step & putting a capo on one ... i just tried this on my 91 412,
which has a 25.5" scale & d'addario EXP19s on it, but the playability feels easier,
to me, than light gauge strings tuned to concert pitch & the tone is deeper as well

i don't know if it will affect the overall intonation & on a 24 7/8" scale if it may  need
a very slight truss rod tweak, or if using a capo might  seem to 'deaden' the tone any ???

also, since the capo would effectively be acting as the nut, it may take some getting
used to, as fretting would be done one fret down (& the fretmarkers will be 'one-off')

it was just an idea - i most likely will end up trying this, at least for the time being, so
i can attempt to play more & hopefully it will be somewhat therapeutic to my injured hand


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Jannie

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2012, 05:16:42 PM »
Would it work to use medium light strings and not turn them down a half step? I don't think the increased tension of the basses would bother me?

michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2012, 09:10:35 PM »
Would it work to use medium light strings and not turn them down a half step? I don't think the increased tension of the basses would bother me?
i've done that in the past few years on the standard 25.5" scale 412 i have & i haven't noticed any detrimental
effects (20+ yr old guitar) & the 24 7/8" scale that you have on your GC3 would give it a slightly 'slinkier' feel

i am amazed by the feel of 1/2 step down & capo on 1, as i never thought about trying that up until now -
thanks for starting this thread, Jannie :D
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Jannie

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »
I can't wait to find out what you mean by slinkier feel. I remember slinkys but this has me fascinated.

michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2012, 10:18:57 AM »
I can't wait to find out what you mean by slinkier feel. I remember slinkys but this has me fascinated.
hi Jannie
i guess what i was trying to say is comparative speaking, on 24 7/8" scale rather than 25.5" -
i've been using medium lights on a 25.5" scale 412, previously tuned to concert pitch &
then currently trying it tuned half a step down capo on 1, whereas on a 24 7/8" scale
the tension on the E, A & D will increase some, but i imagine it wouldn't be quite as much
of a difference as on a 25.5" scale, which mine is, but i was quite comfortable with it before


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