Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol

[Tammany Tiger]

They need to find their market. This guitar is following Taylor's pattern of introducing additions to their line as Limiteds, responding to market popularity and then fine tuning the model.

I agree. There is more to come with 12 frets.

[Greenheart]

I am replying to several points raised in this thread.

Taylor will build a BTO 12 fret in either a GC or GA shape. The standard wood combinations are available on this sort of project, including sapele and ovankol back and sides. There is no up-charge for either of these materials.

Yes but BTO prices are rather high which is not what the OP is looking for in an ovankol 12 fret

Taylor uses a 12 fret specific BTO build sheet with slightly different pricing and options than on other BTOs. Overall, 12 frets are either the same price or slightly less expensive than other BTOs. See next paragraph. 

See above post

Slothead tuners are not an extra charge for 12 frets as they are on the regular BTO sheet. A 12 fret can be built with either a standard peghead or a slothead for the same price.

Yes, both are expensive, not what the op is looking for

A non-cutaway ovankol or sapele guitar would be one of the least expensive BTOs. If you are careful on the other appointments, you can have one built for about the same price as a stock acoustic Taylor. The only downside is the wait and the inability to preview the guitar before taking the plunge.

Still more tan a 300 or 400 series guitar

There is a recent thread on these pages (with links to pictures) discussing an absolutely gorgeous ovankol BTO. Look here: http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=1025.0[/color][/size][/font]

Sort of a bad example to bring up. In that case the guy paid 900 series prices for the ovankol BTO because he was promised high grade wood but what he got was plain 400 series ovankol so rightfully so he felt cheated.

I point all this out to keep others from misunderstanding the intent of original post which I thought had to do with an affordable 12 fret.

[michaelw]

it seems to me that with the CV bracing pattern on the 14 fret models,
that there was a desire to tap into a bit more 'richness' in overall tone -
i'm curious to see if adi bracing trickles down to the 12 frets as well,
or it was determined that sitka bracing was best for the desired results

anxiously awaiting for the next phase of 'revoicing' to begin, especially with
with the abilities that Andy Powers brings to the table ... this should be great

One of the most important features is already there. Taylor Customer Service confirmed that 12 frets use a relief cut on their tops. I think that CV per se is impossible because the 12er has an entirely different bridge placement.

the relief rout has been used on all guitars with the Standard II
bracing pattern also & the rout is not exclusive to 12 frets or CV -
the relief rout may possibly be used on the 100/200s,
which have forward-shifted bracing, & the GS Mini as well

i realize that the bracing pattern is specific to the 12 fret (GC or GA), due to the bridge position -
i was mentioning the fact that sitka is the only bracing material currently offered &
the question was the possibility of adi being used with the 12 fret bracing pattern,
not  utilizing the CV bracing pattern on a 12 fret, as CV & adi CV is currently
available only  on the 14 fret models (short 24 7/8" or standard 25.5" scale)

i believe that Jannie started this thread because she was inquiring about the
possibility of a GC3/4 12 fret, in hopes that those models would be relatively
close in $ to the current GC3/4, rather than the cost of having a BTO spec'd
with the same appointments, which currently would exceed the 456ce $ range

Yes but BTO prices are rather high which is not what the OP is looking for in an ovankol 12 fret ...

... I point all this out to keep others from misunderstanding the intent of original post which I thought had to do with an affordable 12 fret.

& with that, i believe we're back on track -
thanks Paul

[Jannie]

Yes, that's it, no electronics, no cutaway, essentially a GC3 or 4 but with a 12 fret neck with a 1 3/4 nut. The same guitar only different. The simplicity and simple beauty of design and shape of my GC3 just grows on me more every day. It's quite a beautifully shaped guitar. I just want it to be a 12 Fret with the bridge moved back closer to the center, with the shorter 24.9 scale or what ever the neck is on the current 12 Fret. My mind still thinks 14 fret necks feel
unnatural.

[Tammany Tiger]

I am replying to several points raised in this thread.

Taylor will build a BTO 12 fret in either a GC or GA shape. The standard wood combinations are available on this sort of project, including sapele and ovankol back and sides. There is no up-charge for either of these materials.

Yes but BTO prices are rather high which is not what the OP is looking for in an ovankol 12 fret

Taylor uses a 12 fret specific BTO build sheet with slightly different pricing and options than on other BTOs. Overall, 12 frets are either the same price or slightly less expensive than other BTOs. See next paragraph. 

See above post

Slothead tuners are not an extra charge for 12 frets as they are on the regular BTO sheet. A 12 fret can be built with either a standard peghead or a slothead for the same price.

Yes, both are expensive, not what the op is looking for

A non-cutaway ovankol or sapele guitar would be one of the least expensive BTOs. If you are careful on the other appointments, you can have one built for about the same price as a stock acoustic Taylor. The only downside is the wait and the inability to preview the guitar before taking the plunge.

Still more tan a 300 or 400 series guitar

There is a recent thread on these pages (with links to pictures) discussing an absolutely gorgeous ovankol BTO. Look here: http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=1025.0[/color][/size][/font]

Sort of a bad example to bring up. In that case the guy paid 900 series prices for the ovankol BTO because he was promised high grade wood but what he got was plain 400 series ovankol so rightfully so he felt cheated.

I point all this out to keep others from misunderstanding the intent of original post which I thought had to do with an affordable 12 fret.

Woah. What is going on with this point by point antagonism that seems to be creeping into these threads?

Sorry if my comments offended.

Let's be extra careful though characterizing other people's comments particularly when words like "cheated" are included. The thread you refer to and a related one on AGF ended with positive comments from the buyer. He was given extremely high quality wood with that guitar as many, many people pointed out.

[Tammany Tiger]

Jannie-

I am retiring from this thread to avoid controversy. If you would like to PM me I would be happy to discuss what I meant by my comments. BTOs are great values and the standard discounting that applies to regular Taylors also applies to BTOs at several places I can recommend off line. You can definitely build a sapele or ovankol 12 fret to a very nice price point.

I have read enough of your threads since you have been here to know what you meant in the OP.

[Jannie]

No worries, this thread has helped me a lot and it looks clear that I can order through my excellent local store Dusty Strings when I can save up enough money, I'm retired, on very close to a modest fixed income- not complaining, life is great and I'm pretty thrilled by the thoughts about being able to order this in the future.

I am really loving the Taylor neck setup, I made a few neck adjustments last night to get the action even better and just amazed how this allows vey fine tuning to fit my new style of playing with a pick as I progress. A tiny adjustment with the truss rod can make quite a difference, like maybe 1/16 of a turn. I don't think I've rotated the truss nut more than 1/4 of a turn in the whole time I've had it, changing strings, diameters and tensions. Pretty interesting.

Also as I impove, the combinations of everything I'm doing is giving me a clearer beautiful tone/sound and last night I went to bed so excited with the posibilities and woke up with the same feeling. Familiarity and simplicity for me builds confidence and a faster path to excellence, even when it's a very complicated scenario. Much like I once read in a book on the subject of Genius- the definition of Genius is "the simplist answer to the question" and the definition of common sence is "the same thing". Of course that is debatable but like I was saying to a guitar playing friend who stopped by last night, the necks on the Taylor's are the same quality and basic sets of designs throughout the lines and offer me the opportunity to fine tune it myself to my character and desires. The rest, more major stuff I can have done easily over at Dusty Strings. Or I can leave it all up to the shop. I was able to order an ivory saddle thought and do the finish fit and adjustments all by myself, that was very cool, thanks to Bob Colosi and his attention to detail plus the instructions he sends with a new saddle.

The GC3 I have is just getting better and better as I improve and come to understand better what it can offer. I just really love 12 fret necks and for my damaged ears the sound just comes to me differently in a way I love, and this has happened with every 12 fret I have played.

Other than all of this, I'm mostly interested in just improving and expanding my playing and having fun with it. I have no desire to take this away from my living room or get up in front of others, in a way I would say its a very spiritual sound experience that vibrates into my heart and whole body and very personal. The guitar as I learn becomes more of a natural part of personal expression and this comes a lot from familiarity and respect for and confidence with the instrument.

Whew, wordy this morning, it's raining and blowing outside and I haven't even finished my coffee yet.

[DennisG]

Jannie,

A short note about Dusty Strings:  I've bought two guitars from them, and both times I brought in a price from Guitar Center and said to the manager that I'll buy from him if he can come within $150 of GC's price.  He agreed both times and was pleased that I approached him that way.  I got exactly the guitars I wanted, was able to support a local business, and still got a good price on the guitars.

[Jannie]

Good to know!

[Steve]

Jannie,

A short note about Dusty Strings:  I've bought two guitars from them, and both times I brought in a price from Guitar Center and said to the manager that I'll buy from him if he can come within $150 of GC's price.  He agreed both times and was pleased that I approached him that way.  I got exactly the guitars I wanted, was able to support a local business, and still got a good price on the guitars.

Good for you, man.

All too often people will insist that a "local" guy meet or beat a GC price, either unconcerned or unaware that the local guy needs to make a decent profit to keep his doors open. These same people will then squawk about how they supported their local business after they were able to grind the dealer down to, if the dealer's lucky, XX percent over dealer cost. Well, that's not supporting the local dealer at all. Instead, that's slowly, but surely, aiding in his demise. On a DN3, a dealer needs to make more than $X0.00 to remain viable.

So, Dennis, kudos not grinding the local guy on the price, and for understanding what it is to really support a local dealer...



edited for pricing

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

My hope it to bring down the cost much like it was with my GC3, there is no way I can afford the current 12 fret offers or a custom. I'd only played nylon strung guitars since my youth and the 12 fret just seems right, seems to have a lot more volume playing with fingers too.

Jannine, if your hope is to be able to buy a 12-Fret for the same price as a 300 series Taylor than going the BTO route will not accomplish that. You can build a very basic 12-Fret BTO using Rosewood, Mahogany, Sapele or Ovangkol (all the same price) for about the same as what a GC5 will run you but once you add non plastic binding, a nicer rosette, ES and a cutaway you will be in standard 12-Fret territory price wise.

Good news is Taylor keeps an eye on these forums so if there are enough people interested in a 300 and/or 400 series 12-Fret it just might happen. In fact you can put me down as someone else who would be interested in a Sapele/Cedar 12-Fret without cutaway or ES, and solid peghead priced the same a the GC3. 

[Jannie]

Spose I'd best do to stop wishing and stick with what I have and be happy about it, reading about all of this stuff and looking at the catalog is like it was growing up in a small town with the Monkey Ward catalog that we called the wish book lol. I paid a little over a thousand for my GC3 on a good discount, everything with a 12 fret neck is double or triple that so there's really no point in thinking about it huh, but it was a nice wish. The GC3 is a really nice guitar, just had my heart set on another 12 fret once I started playing a 14 fret, it's like trying to be left handed after so many years the other way around. But new beginnings are just that, I'm learning guitar all over from the start having been away from it for so many decades.

[Greenheart]

BTOs are great values and the standard discounting that applies to regular Taylors also applies to BTOs at several places I can recommend off line.

I was not aware that there was a "standard discount" that applies to regular guitars.

[ataylor]

BTOs are great values and the standard discounting that applies to regular Taylors also applies to BTOs at several places I can recommend off line.

I was not aware that there was a "standard discount" that applies to regular guitars.

He means that dealers will discount the list price of a BTO guitar just like they will a standard model. I'm not going to post details because of pricing rules on the forum, but if you do some asking around, you'll find what the "standard" percentage typically is.

[Steve]

He means that dealers will discount the list price of a BTO guitar just like they will a standard model. I'm not going to post details because of pricing rules on the forum, but if you do some asking around, you'll find what the "standard" percentage typically is.

And many will not discount it the same amount.

There's really no reason for them to; It's a custom guitar.

Why should a dealer discount it as much?