Author Topic: Help!. Problem instaling Gotoh 510s. (Read 4672 times)

Guitar Cowboy · « **on:** January 29, 2018, 06:56:39 PM »

Oh boy, now I've done it. I have installed Gotoh 510s on all my Taylors , well almost. The first two I did a few years ago and I recently ordered a set of Cosmo Blacks and Cosmo Black minis for my 618 and my GS mini Koa, respectively . The Mini installation went fine as did the two previous installations. I thought the most difficult part was lining them up before you drilled the hole for the set screw, so that is where I spent most of my time. I did one side at a time so I could use the factory tuners for a guide. Then it's just a matter of drilling the pilot holes and making sure you don't come through the front side and you are on the home stretch... no problem.... Until when you are screwing in the screw and it breaks off below the surface of the wood. On four guitars, that's 23 successful installations and one failure. Now what?

? Ahhhhhh!!! How the heck do I get that screw out without totally mangling my headstock, which happens to have a real nice variegated ebony back plate on it. My first thought is that I know that Gotoh makes two separate screw placements, 45 and 90 degree. A little filler and I can hide the first hole and screw, secure it at 90 degrees, and never think of it again. But , I cant seem to find 510 1:21 gotohs in cosmo black with the screw at 90 degrees.
Any ideas? ... Anyone? H
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Edward · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2018, 08:15:09 PM »

Yikes, man ...sorry that happened!

1. Likely happened because of either undue torque at you screwing in the screwhead (maybe angling the screwdriver instead of squarely on the head?), or the pilot hole is too small for the screw and thus the screw was binding as it tried to "cut" into the wood. I mention this only so that once you fix the one offending screw, you "may" want to use the next larger bit (check carefully as you may not want to). Remember that this screw does nothing to "hold" the tuning machine in place as that's accomplished by the nut at the top. The screw is only a "locating" screw that helps prevent the body twisting: it needs only a mild anchoring and it's a happy camper

2. Bit Extractor (aka "easy out") you can find at any Home Depot/Lowes' tool dept. You'll clearly need the smallest extractor possible. Be careful ...maybe someone holding the guitar and neck firmly in place as you perform this careful task will be required. Steady hand, my friend

3. Once the broken piece is out, you may be able to get away without doing a "drill-n-fill." If the screw comes out cleanly, the hole in the wood is largely intact. So it may be ok to receive a new screw, or if not, drill one size larger and go in with the new screw.

Hope this helps ...post your victory, I hope!!

Edward

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2018, 09:03:28 PM »

Thanks Edward . I used the same drill bit on all the other installs , so I think that's OK . But you are right , I may have over torqued it . This is a time when a 23/24 = 96% just sucks ... : (. I am hoping I can get it fixed without much noticeable damage , but I was really wishing I could just fix it with buying another couple (second one to match on the other side) Gotohs with the scews at a different place. I wouldn't care if the cost $xxx a piece. I will start looking for the smallest of all screw extractors and I will post my progress. Thanks again.
Steve

HOF dad · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2018, 09:25:41 PM »

It's almost uncomfortable to read about your dilemma!
Good luck - i hope everything works out well.

Dan

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2018, 09:33:09 PM »

Yeah, I know a 3.5 cent screw and a little carelessness causing big problems to a $2xxx guitar. Yikes... : (

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2018, 10:03:03 PM »

Edward,
Thanks again, but after viewing a couple YouTube videos on bit extractors, It looks like I might would run the risk of having the screw poke through the front side of the headstock in the process of the extractor grabbing purchase on the imbedded screw. Maybe my best bet is to put the Taylor tuners back on and live with 6 screw holes on the back of my Ebony adorned back plate. Uhg, sad day ... just trying to make my already beautiful Taylor a bit more special... it doesn't always work like you want it to... . I guess...

magirus · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2018, 07:08:41 AM »

Take it to a jeweller or engraver who may be able to carefully run a tool across the embedded screw shank and put enough of a slot in to use a flat head screwdriver to extract it, presuming you can see the face of the break.

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2018, 08:17:51 AM »

Thanks Magirus . That seems like it may work.

TaylorGirl · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2018, 09:20:54 AM »

Our mandolin player had the same problem while trying to install a strap pin. I know you're dealing with a smaller screw, but he took it to a qualified tech (luthier) (Elderly Instruments, Lansing) who did his magic to safely remove the broken screw and finish the initial project with no ill effects. Is there a tech/luthier in your area that you'd trust?

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2018, 09:27:22 AM »

I am kind of out in the sticks , but I will probably call Tobias Music in Downers Grove. They are within a 1.5 hour drive. I'll let you know how it goes with the hopes of being able to eventually show off my improvements . Thanks

magirus · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2018, 11:37:46 AM »

I'm sure you'll get this problem sorted GC. I'm considering Gotoh 510 minis for my GS Mini Koa, do you have a part number for the minis please? Also, what size drill bit did you use for the headstock?

SoCalSurf · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2018, 12:03:59 PM »

Quote from: magirus on January 30, 2018, 11:37:46 AM

I'm sure you'll get this problem sorted GC. I'm considering Gotoh 510 minis for my GS Mini Koa, do you have a part number for the minis please? Also, what size drill bit did you use for the headstock?

I used these Gotohs on my Mini and they are awesome: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077K3TPFM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Easy to install; just take your time with the drilling and the alignment. Worth it in the end.

To the OP: Total bummer. At this point I would have it looked at professionally. No need to risk further damage trying to remedy it yourself. And I don't think you need to go to a luthier for this if you can find a woodworker in your area who can remove the broken screw and advise you on where to go from there.

In the meantime you have other gorgeous guitars you can play so you don't rush through this repair. Please keep us posted!

Guitar Cowboy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2018, 05:01:48 PM »

Quote from: SoCalSurf on January 30, 2018, 12:03:59 PM

Quote from: magirus on January 30, 2018, 11:37:46 AM
I'm sure you'll get this problem sorted GC. I'm considering Gotoh 510 minis for my GS Mini Koa, do you have a part number for the minis please? Also, what size drill bit did you use for the headstock?

I used these Gotohs on my Mini and they are awesome: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077K3TPFM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Easy to install; just take your time with the drilling and the alignment. Worth it in the end.

To the OP: Total bummer. At this point I would have it looked at professionally. No need to risk further damage trying to remedy it yourself. And I don't think you need to go to a luthier for this if you can find a woodworker in your area who can remove the broken screw and advise you on where to go from there.

In the meantime you have other gorgeous guitars you can play so you don't rush through this repair. Please keep us posted!

Here's a link and a part number . I used a 3/32 bit, but are you sure you want to take any advice from me?

http://www.lmii.com/products/shopbrowse?category_id=222

GGM6CBSMCKB Gotoh 510 mini, cosmo black, cosmo black button, 18:1 ratio
Yes I will have it looked at professionally guitar teck, wood worker or maybe a jewler as suggested above.
Thanks

Edward · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2018, 06:12:24 PM »

Hey Steve,

Try the extractor by hand maybe ...see if you can get any "bite" into the broken screw head. But even with a powered drill in your hand, so long as you go sloooooow and caaaaarefully, you will not poke through the headstock. The Extractor is counter-wound: follow the instructions and the extractor will unscrew the broken piece through the threads it had initially cut when it went in. This truly isn't hard for a guit tech who has done a bajillion of these, but it's admittedly un-nerving to us with out precious beauty as the patient. Try it slowly (make sure the guitar neck is rock-solid stable so another's hands may be a big help here), and give it a slow try. If it's stubborn, then save the guitar for that day when you feel like driving out there to a good tech and just have it done ...won't be expensive at all as it's second-nature for them (yours is not the first screw that got snapped buried into wood ...folks do this with bolt-on neck's screws, and especially strap end pins, so it's not at all rare).

Edward

Craig · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2018, 06:55:52 AM »

Thinking outside the box a bit, how about making sure the tuner is nice and tight with the locking nut and then gluing the remaining screw head in place on it?

Only you would ever know.

Craig

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