Why does Taylor factory install Elixir Nanoweb Bronze 80/20's on 814's

[solosdad]

Hi Everyone: Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's? Is there a tonal advantage to 80/20 bronze on these guitars?

[S MS Picker]

Taylor used D'Addarios for years. Guess Mr. Gore  aka GoreTex made a better deal.
Steve

[DennisG]

Hi Everyone: Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's? Is there a tonal advantage to 80/20 bronze on these guitars?

It's a very reasonable question, and one I've been wondering about since I bought my 814 two years ago.  To my way of thinking, there aren't many guitars in Taylor's entire lineup that sound better with 80/20s than they do with PBs.

[dangrunloh]

All Taylors get 80/20's. Only the gauge changes. Lights on most, medium on some.  The guitars are presumably voiced for 80/20's and the intonation would also be set for 80/20's (if that makes any difference. It may not since it is the inner core that determines?)

I like my 414 with just about any strings on it but admit that I have settle back to the 80/20's for my type of playing.  The PB's are more fun for pure instrumental but they sound  more jumbled to me when used to accompany my voice.  For 80/20's I like a more mellow pick to compensate for the brightness. Love that pure tone I get with them.

[Steve]

Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's?

This may or may not be on point, but would you expect a company as large and as influential as Taylor Guitars to make a business decision based on the opinions of a few people on an internet forum?

[rrgguitarman]

I've asked myself the same question. I have purchased 4 new Taylors and I always change the 80/20s to PB.

[michaelw]

my guess is that perhaps 80/20s are what Taylor likes to use

Taylor started using Elixir 80/20s in june of 99 (PolyWebs, i believe) &
then switched to the NanoWebs once they were available -
.012 - .053 PB strings were standard on the 814ce prior (likely D'addarios)

i believe that Elixir NanoWeb PB strings may have been 'standard' on R Taylors &
Elixir doesn't make their own strings  (W.L. Gore does the coating process)

since NanoWeb 80/20 have been the 'standard string' installed from the factory
for the last 10 years, along with Tusq nuts & saddles (on nearly all models),
i think the reason it is done is for consistency across all the models overall &,
perhaps, may best represent Taylor's signature tone on all guitars that are in shops

imho, NanoWeb 80/20s are likely the most popular replacement string for Taylors, as
i imagine those that have 'no string preference' will replace them with 'what came on it'

i used the NanoWeb PBs previously, but switched to D'addario EXP19s (i like 'em ) -
the odd thing is, for a coated string, the D'addario EXPs may possibly be closer in tone
to the strings that were orginally 'standard' on Taylors, before Elixirs were even around

or, may be not ...  imho, strings are based on one's personal preference - either can/be change(d)

ymmv

[Saxacat]

I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.

So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.

Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.

(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)

[leeasam]

IMO they already have plenty of overtones to the roseowood 800 series. The PB actually has an overtone of their own and is not always consistant.  I know of some small higher end builders that prefer the 80/20s over the PB just for that reason. more focused tone and note seperation. For strumming and cowboy stuff the PB can work well but I have founf for more intricate stuff I prefer the 80/20s.  I also do not need a darker sounding guitar. AND the 80/20s have less tension the the PB so it is easer to play.

[dsamuel24]

I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.

So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.

Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.

(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, Saxacat... there are 2 different issues in question in your post, but it appears you may think they are the same thing. Let me explain:

1) PB stands for Phosphor Bronze while 80/20 is a different kind of bronze string winding (anyone with better info on the difference btwn the PhosBronze(PB) and the 80/20 Bronze, jump right in!). The Elixir nano light PB string, IMO, sounds much "darker" and "muted" than the Elixir nano light 80/20 string that comes standard on all Taylors (but they're still both Elixir NANO coated .12-.53 strings). So the first issue in question here (and the original topic of discussion on this thread) is about Phosphor Bronze vs 80/20 Bronze and the differences in sound those 2 different strings create.

2) The 2nd issue you brought up, I think, is the difference between Elixir NANOweb coated strings and Elixir POLYweb coated strings. Totally different from the type of bronze the strings are wound with, the COATING on the Elixirs comes in 2 flavors. POLYweb is a thicker, denser coating that mutes the sound more and frays more, and the NANOweb coating is thinner, less dense, and lets more of the string sound ring through, and frays less (although it still frays). Most folks (at least that I have read and talked to) prefer the NANOs to the POLYs, and Taylor uses NANOs exclusively.

You said you, "...tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me... Going back to the 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play." That's what made me think you didn't realize the 2 different topics being discussed. The difference between 80/20s and PBs should have no impact whatsoever on "playability" (at least in my own experiments with both types on my own guitars), but the difference between NANOwebs and POLYwebs could have a major impact on playability.

Hope that helps. If you already knew all of this, or if I mis-read (mis-interpreted) your post, I apologize for getting involved. 

[leeasam]

I have noticed playability differences in PB and 80/20s. Even my son who is barely a beginner at best can tell the difference between the two for feel and stiffness. he says the guitar is easier to play with the 80/20s. the PB are stiffer.  I agree with him. Another reason I don`t use PB on my 816CE. don`t want to make playing Mediums any harder than it needs to be.

[Saxacat]

dsamuel24, thanks for your reply.

I did read-up on the differences between the Elixir strings, although as a novice I don't consider myself to be an expert in any shape or form.

I read the OP as a question about why Taylor choose 80/20s as their factory fit for 800 series, as opposed to PBs, with the OP wondering whether tone could be a reason.

Now I do not own an 800 series, but thought I would put my 2 pennyworth in and state that I personally found that PBs changed the playability of my GA for the worse (the inference being that maybe I was not alone in finding that, and that may be a reason Taylor factory fit 80/20s).

I then suggested there may be a cost reason.

Finally, as an aside (and I admit, nothing to do with the OP) I mentioned I was going to try Polywebs on my guitar to see what they were like.

However, if I have mis-understood the OP then I apologise.

[darylcrisp]

years ago Bob T did an article explaining his reasoning of using the Elixirs. I'll try to dig that up and come back and post here. Seems to me it was on the Taylor site.

I personally prefer 80/20's on most things. I just like the feel, the sound, etc. But i do try Phos Bronze on everything i own. In fact, I'm getting ready to go home and string up my Goodall TR000 with some Martin SP Phos/Bronz to see/hear the difference.

d

[Edward]

I remember my '99 coming with these strange new strings that seemed to shed their skin ...weird.  But I like how long they lasted.  So much better when Nanowebs came out, not just for tone but also no more peeling!

I've since then moved to PB nanos, and have stuck with them over every acoustic including non-Ts, for these many years: the combo of good tone and tonal consistency  over their entire usable life was key as I hated how normal strings' tone slowly degrade over time.   I don't like to change strings often on the acoustics (though with electrics fairly freq changes are typical) and like to know that if I grab an acoustic, it will be good to enough to play out right now.   And it is this consistency and longevity that I think Taylor wants in guitars that will sit in showrooms, being played by many, and still have to sound more than just "good" but better than everything else in the room.  Smart.

But I think it is interesting that RTaylors come stock with PBs.   One could conclude that the PB is a tonal upgrade by this; or maybe it's just part 'n parcel of how they voice RTs.  Perhaps not coincidentally I have likewise moved from the 80/20s to PBs on every Taylor I've owned for years before I ever owned an RT.  But that's me.  As for the company's decision, I think their choice for stocking all their production guits with 80/20s ensures they will remain bright and resonant throughout their lives in stores.  And when the guitar gets purchased, one can only surmise that the strings had accomplished their mission

Edward

[michaelw]

I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.

So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.

Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.

(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)

hi Saxacat,
in general, i've found that most 80/20s are lower tension overall when compared to PB strings -
there are exceptions, of course (DR SunBeams roundcore, Martin FX flex-core, Newtones, etc)

on D'addario's website, one can select the type of string & then click on 'family tension chart'
to see how the tensions differ, tuned to concert pitch (A 440Hz) on a 25.5" scale length guitar
http://www.daddario.com/DADProductsAcoustic.Page?ActiveID=1904

Elixir's wound strings (E, A, D, G) have a hexcore, but they are stated as being 'lower tension'
but i have not been able to find any tension charts regarding the exact tenesions of Elixirs specifically

also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may  require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch (the D'addario site show tensions for uncoated & EXP as being the same),
but again, the coating used on Elixirs is different than that of other strings & it is proprietary to WL Gore -
i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s

in the US also, the Elixir PBs tend to be a bit higher in $ & it is very likely that fewer sets are sold overall & also
because most large scale manufacturers that use Elixirs put the 80/20 flavor on at the factory, as there may
be a good chance that over the time passing (shipping & in-stock at stores), the 80/20 may  stay 'brighter' longer

i hope that all the info posted in all of the response here is helpful -
thanks to solosdad for starting this thread
... this is another great one, imho