Redwood and sinker redwood tops -- characteristics?

[ataylor]

I've seen some really beautiful redwood and sinker redwood tops on Taylors (and R.Taylors) over the last couple years. What are the tonal characteristics of redwood and the sinker redwood? My guess would be that redwood is kind of close to cedar and the sinker is a little closer to mahogany, but that's just a total guess.

What wood(s) would you pair with redwood for a deep, warm sound?

Many thanks for the input.

Also, this is an excuse to show off your guitar if it features either of those woods.

[Guitar Rodeo]

ataylor,

Good call. You are correct in your placing of these top woods in the tone spectrum. They pair well with Rosewood, Cocobolo, and Mahogany and I have yet to hear one of these builds disappoint my ear.

[DennisG]

I own a sinker-topped guitar, and my sense of it is that there is virtually no difference between standard redwood and sinker redwood.  What you get with a sinker top is a great story about the origin of the wood, and probably little else that isn't already provided by a standard redwood top.  Having said that, I'm absolutely in love with redwood, regardless of its origin.  You get the lush warmth of cedar with the clarity and note distinction of sitka.

[cjd-player]

I already had an older redwood-topped Taylor when I specked out the redwood top on by BTO, but I did some additional research.  Like any top wood, different top sets can vary in stiffness.  I knew that redwood was typically in between cedar and sitka spruce in terms of stiffness, and discussed this with my dealer.   I don't particularly like cedar-topped guitars, so I requested that my redwood top lean more toward the stiffness of sitka rather than cedar.

My dealer was actually out at Taylor before my guitar was built and sent me photos of several redwood sets.  One was prettier that the others, but I asked them to pick the stiffest set (which turned out to not be the best-looking one).

I could not be happier with my guitar.  Very nice and warm for my solo fingerstyle - not mushy like most cedar guitars I've played - but can be crisp and somewhat punchy when flat picked.  I think redwood has great string separation.

If you play fingerstye, I do not think you can go wrong with a redwood top.

As per you picture request, here's my BTO:





I've read that redwood can sound a lot like Engelmann spruce, but my experience has been different.  The only old growth redwood guitars that I have ever played are the two I have owned.  Both Taylor Grand Concerts with EI rosewood.  The engelmann-topped Grand Concerts I have played have been drier and thinner sounding to me, with less tonal complexity than either of my redwood guitars.  But maybe it was just my particular guitars.

I've only played a few Sinker redwood Taylors, and none were Rosewood Grand Concerts, so I can''t really say much about the comparison between redwood and Sinker redwood.  Some folks have said that the Sinker tends to be stiffer and is even closer to sitka, but still has most of the warmth of redwood.   I suspect that with the mineral deposits it has marginally higher density than non-sinker redwood and in general is slightly stiffer.

I believe there was a comment in a Wood and Steel that all of Taylor's sinker redwood tops have come from just one log.  So if you look their sinker-topped guitars you see lots of color and striping variations. So I suspect density and stiffness variations as well.

[Strumming Fool]

I've played a few redwood guitars (both standard and old growth) and considerably more sinker redwood guitars. I chose the sinker for my BTO, because the sinker seems to be a bit stiffer, and therefore closer to sitka spruce in volume and projection. However, it has more sweetness and warmth than my sitka guitars, and it has a bit of a "darker" sound than most engelmann tops I've played. As you can see from my signature, I have one of each top wood in a Taylor GA, all with different back and side woods. From all the redwood pairings I have played, I would choose either walnut, rosewood or ovangkol (my current favorite) as the back/sides wood. Here's a photo of my 2011 BTO:

[ataylor]

Those are both really nice guitars. Something really nice about both types of wood. The sinker redwood can obviously have this dark, mysterious sort of look depending on how it's stained, and the traditional redwood has a really really nice warm look -- kind of like the best of spruce, cedar, and mahogany all rolled into one.

I haven't given much thought to redwood for a guitar I'd like but I'm starting to wonder...

[jalbert]

I own a sinker-topped guitar, and my sense of it is that there is virtually no difference between standard redwood and sinker redwood.

I also own a sinker-topped guitar (not a Taylor) and in my experience with other redwood-topped guitars, I agree.

[Strumming Fool]

If you play enough of them, you will notice a subtle difference between redwood (closest to cedar in tone), old growth redwood (a bit darker and richer) and sinker redwood (more stiffness and volume). However, a lot still depends upon the construction, bracing, etc.  Most of my experience with redwood has been with Taylor GAs and GSs, and most of these were with some species of rosewood. So I had a fairly fundamental basis for comparison. In all fairness, one or two sinker tops had the tighter sound sometimes associated with hardwood tops such as mahogany or koa. So my choice of sinker was admittedly a bit of a risk. I'm so glad that I paired it with ovangkol, because they work together so beautifully in this GA.  I get some "Martinesque" thump in the bass along with an almost twelve string harmonic response throughout the strings. It's quite unique as compared to my other Taylors, but I still think that my all-time favorite is my 14-year old cedar/walnut GA.

[S MS Picker]

I must be tone challenged when it comes to Taylors.They all sound great if they're in good condition.The shapes is what does it for me. The difference between my412 and the GS6 is simply night and day. I love them both,and my 710,and my 410, and my 414 and my 110,and,and,,,
Steve

[Strumming Fool]

I must be tone challenged when it comes to Taylors.They all sound great if they're in good condition.The shapes is what does it for me. The difference between my412 and the GS6 is simply night and day. I love them both,and my 710,and my 410, and my 414 and my 110,and,and,,,
Steve

Excellent point S MS!

Tonewoods can and do effect tone, but the biggest influencer IMO is the shape, size and bracing of the instrument, followed by the topwood with the back/sides wood bringing up the rear....

[Tammany Tiger]

I own a sinker-topped guitar, and my sense of it is that there is virtually no difference between standard redwood and sinker redwood.  What you get with a sinker top is a great story about the origin of the wood, and probably little else that isn't already provided by a standard redwood top.  Having said that, I'm absolutely in love with redwood, regardless of its origin.  You get the lush warmth of cedar with the clarity and note distinction of sitka.

My experience is different and I agree with other posters that Sinker is stiffer. Among other things, this creates more headroom than cedar or standard redwood without sacrificing warmth.

[temporaryalias]

I own a sinker-topped guitar, and my sense of it is that there is virtually no difference between standard redwood and sinker redwood.  What you get with a sinker top is a great story about the origin of the wood, and probably little else that isn't already provided by a standard redwood top.  Having said that, I'm absolutely in love with redwood, regardless of its origin.  You get the lush warmth of cedar with the clarity and note distinction of sitka.

My experience is different and I agree with other posters that Sinker is stiffer. Among other things, this creates more headroom than cedar or standard redwood without sacrificing warmth.

I am really curious how my Sinker/EIR is going to turn out. I am having a  GC built right now and asked for a really flexible top with a lot of mineralization, striping and color variation. I wanted to balance the top out somehow. My hope was keep the flexibility to keep response and hope the smaller size and mineralization will open the headroom up, so we shall see.

[Tammany Tiger]

I am really curious how my Sinker/EIR is going to turn out. I am having a  GC built right now and asked for a really flexible top with a lot of mineralization, striping and color variation. I wanted to balance the top out somehow. My hope was keep the flexibility to keep response and hope the smaller size and mineralization will open the headroom up, so we shall see.

It should be pretty wonderful. I played three or four BTO GCs in this combination and they were all outstanding guitars. Warm and bassy but still pretty articulate. Lots of headroom.

[prusaw]

You guys are killing me-- my sinker/ovengkal BTO should be completed any day now and it's way harder to wait when I read your comments and drool over the pictures :-)  thanks....

[cigarfan]

I get some "Martinesque" thump in the bass along with an almost twelve string harmonic response throughout the strings.

What a perfect description!

My BTO is Sinker over Macassar Ebony / Coco but I am getting this same type of response. I have a Cedar over Macassar Ebony which is much warmer with a little less headroom with emphasis on "a little".

http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Sinker-BTO-01.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Sinker-BTO-05.jpg