What is the indicator that a guitar needs to be set-up?

[roadbiker]

When I got my new 814 I was given a voucher for a free set-up. They told me to play it for a while and then bring it in for the set-up. I'm not sure if it needs one though. I've had the guitar for about 6 weeks and I am very happy with it. The only thing I noticed is a slight buzzing on the B string when capo'd on or around the 4th fret (playing the intro to California Dreaming makes it happen). I changed strings and it does the same thing. So I'm wondering if this is something I should ask them to look at and give the guitar a proper set-up. Is the set-up from the factory usually sufficient or is it pretty routine to bring it in to have it done?

Thanks, Jim

[Steve]

For me, a guitar needs to be set up when I no longer enjoy playing it as much as I used to.

I realize that's hardly quantifiable, but there it is.

As for the capo, it could be how you're applying the capo. You want that thing to be right behind the fret.

Or you might need a set up.

 

[Cindy]

Jim, have you read some of the Tech Sheets that Taylor has posted on their web site? There are a few that might help you to determine what is considered normal. To view the list of Tech Sheets, here is a link...just click on the Tech Sheets tab from that page.

All of the following links will download the Tech Sheets as PDFs:

Truss Rod Adjustments

Symptoms of a Dry Guitar

Symptoms of a Wet Guitar

There are many other excellent Tech Sheets there that are also noteworthy.

[Edward]

Hey Jim,

Make sure you have settled on the string brand and gauge that you think you'll end up with.  Play for a while, let em settle in as well as you going through your regular playing routine of songs, styles, the things you do on your guitar.  Make mental notes of how the action feels in conjunction with how the guitar sounds when you're strumming vs picking vs using fingers (or whatever your personal varying styles are) over different songs, and do the same for those songs up the neck.  This "evaluation" wll give you an idea of where your guitar's action is vs where you may want it to go.  If it plays great now, you don't really know that it can't play better after a set up; and yes, it can get worse (meaning it's set up not to your personal liking). 

A "good setup" means that the action overall is tailored to the player's style.  So you set the standard here.  I also recommend to anyone owning an acoustic that you get a ruler that measures in 64ths of an inch.  These little metal rulers can be had at your local DIY store for a couple o bucks.   It is best to be able to measure what exactly your string height is at the 12th fret, low and high E.  You should know what it is now, before you get it done by the tech, and then measure it after it's been worked on.  The string height at the 12th and the neck relief has everything to do with your comfort with the guitar and the tones (or buzzes) it produces.  Going by "feel" or memory here is a bad idea as you want actual measurements so you can truly know and compare with objective certainty what going up or down 1/64ths or changing neck relief actually feels and sounds like.  IMHO, it's worth taking a bit of time and analyzing the whole setup process, understanding its effects on tone and play, before you actually start getting things done.  Oh, BTW, the tech doing the work should have a good reputation ...setting up a guitar, in truth, is pretty easy; but done by someone who is either incompetant or disinterested can yield very poor results.  Hope that gives you a few things to think about

Edward

[roadbiker]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I use a Shubb capo and position it as close the fret (down the fretboard) as possible. I have read all of the mentioned Taylor documents, but it never hurts to read them again. Thanks Cindy.

I appreciate the advice and I think that I am no where near needing a set-up at this point. I'm only on my second set of strings, which I puton about a week ago. I used Elixer Nanoweb 80/20 lights. Before that I had a set of D'Addario Phosphor Bronze lights (both sets .012 - .053). So far I prefer the D'Addarrio's and am going to try a set of either XLR's or Elixer NW PB's next. I like the idea of settling in on the strings that I like before thinking about a set-up, and I will certainly take the measurements you suggested Ed.

Thanx again, Jim

[byrd]

I've had the same question recently.  After playing my new 714ce-sd for a couple weeks, I've notice a little bit of buzzing... primarily on the A string around the 3rd to 7th frets.  I've made measurements of the Low and High E strings with a digital caliper (Low E - 2.5mm, High E - 1.92mm).  The measurements seem to be pretty close to what I've read is fairly standard for Taylors.  I don't think I'd want it any lower since I do tend to be a little aggressive at times.  The relief at the 7th fret seems okay if I fret the 1st and 14th frets simultaneously, but I did not take that measurement.

I'm wondering if the buzzing could be more caused by aggressive strumming rather than a poor setup??  The odd thing is that I had a 314ce for about 2 weeks BEFORE I got the 714.  I felt (no measurements to back it up) as though the action of the 314 was a tad lower than the 714, but I never noticed ANY buzzing on that guit.  Is it worth taking it to my local luthier to check it out?  Either way, I was planning on picking up a new set of strings on my way home this evening and giving it another few weeks just to see how it goes.  I like the Elixer Nanoweb 80/20 lights that came with the 714 so I'll probably stick with those for now.

[Edward]

...I'm wondering if the buzzing could be more caused by aggressive strumming rather than a poor setup??  The odd thing is that I had a 314ce for about 2 weeks BEFORE I got the 714.  I felt (no measurements to back it up) as though the action of the 314 was a tad lower than the 714, but I never noticed ANY buzzing on that guit.  Is it worth taking it to my local luthier to check it out?  Either way, I was planning on picking up a new set of strings on my way home this evening and giving it another few weeks just to see how it goes.  I like the Elixer Nanoweb 80/20 lights that came with the 714 so I'll probably stick with those for now.

Yes, strumming changes everything.  And even when talking "strumming," there are the other questions of "attack" and style of strumming.  Add to these variables the guitars, themselves: a cedar top with a different, softer, rounder voice vs that of a sitka top where the upper mids and highs will clearly "poke out" more.  These diffs will likely change the way you play, if not overtly then subconsciously ...i.e., it is possible you hear/feel less volume and less brightness from the 714, and so play a bit harder to compensate for what "may" be the louder, or at least brighter-sounding, 314.  Or the converse: you're playing the 314 and getting more brightness/sparkle, thus making you play it a bit lighter than the 714. 

Yup, this is why measuring is important: it helps reduce the number of variables and give you a clearer idea of how each of the guitar's setup parameters results in different tone and volume.  And remember, too, that given the wood species, size, and build, each guitar has its own "sonic traits" and it is the player that must work around that guitar's "personality," as it were.  So the "best setup" not only is one that fits each individual player's style, but also each different guitar and its intended mission.

Edward

[byrd]

...i.e., it is possible you hear/feel less volume and less brightness from the 714, and so play a bit harder to compensate for what "may" be the louder, or at least brighter-sounding, 314.  Or the converse: you're playing the 314 and getting more brightness/sparkle, thus making you play it a bit lighter than the 714. 

I hadn't really thought of this, but it could be a contributing factor.  My 714 is a an 'SD' which has a Sitka top, but the Rosewood vs Sapele makes a tremendous difference (to me) in the overall brightness of the guitar.  To me the 314 was almost piercing, which could certainly have lead to a lighter pick hand.  I noticed the fret buzz within a couple days of bringing the 714 home (I didn't really notice it in the store. I suppose the surroundings may have been too noisy.), so new strings probably won't change things much.  However, the fact that the strings have been sounding quite dull as of late could also be leading to an unconsciously heavier hand. 

With regard to style of strumming, I should probably clarify that I typically notice the buzz for when picking individual strings rather than when strumming chords, although it is periodically noticeable when strumming as well.  This may be due to the fact that strumming multiple strings drowns out some the the buzz OR that individual strings are picked more aggressively or at a different angle than strumming multiple strings.  I'll have to pay all little closer attention to my movements this evening.

[Jannie]

Switching from Elixir Light Nano's that had probably been on awhile at the store and going to the Phosphor Bronze of the same specifications, the action dropped noticably on my new GC3 and I adjusted the truss rod about an eighth of a turn like in the Taylor instructions (I'd also watched the luthier at my store do this to a guitar) and all is well.
http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/truss_rod_adjustment.pdf

[S MS Picker]

I had a 2010 DN5e that several buzzes on the b,especially d@3.I sent it to Taylor,and even though it wasn't warranted,they reset the neck,and set it up.It did the same thing,so I sent it back.They pulled the frets,re-sanded the fingerboard,re-fretted,re-set the neck, & set it up again.Came back perfect.Total cost= A C-note & shipping(1 way-1 time).Can't beat Taylor for customer service.I just thought my Dodge dealer was good.
Steve

[coldshot]

G day Jim,
The reason why the store mentioned go and play it for a while and then bring it in is, it let's the guitar climatise to your conditions, humidity etc.
All guitars change (move) with humidity swings, once the guitar settles it may or may not need a set up. It's ususally just a tweak of the truss rod to alleiviate any string buzz.
Sometimes you might find a nut has been incorrectly cut and need deepening, you'd most likely already noticed that though if you've been playing it.