Possible problem with ES system on new 814ce?

[roadbiker]

I've had my 814 since Black Friday and have only played it through my old KMD electric amp. It sounds nice and clean, but I've really wanted to get an acoustic-specific amp, so I bought a Fishman Loudbox Mini from Musician's Friend. I mentioned some of this in an ealrier thread. I'm starting to think there might be a problem with the ES system.

At first I was getting a hiss and a lot of popping. It was a little dry so I raised the RH to about 50%. That elimiated any static electricity and most of the popping went away. Next I bought a Tayler V-Cable, thinking that might help because Taylor recommends it for the ES System. While I was waiting for it to be shipped (from Sweetwater - the best price),  I called Taylor and explained the situation. By the way, I had tried several cables all with the same result, and the Mini doesn't hiss with my Epiphone connected. The hissing goes away when I touch either the amp itself or the plug at the bottom of the guitar (any metal in-line), which leads me to believe that it could be a grounding problem. Anyway, the guy at Taylor was very helpful and he asked me if the hissing goes away when I touch the strings. I didn't know at that time. He also thought that it could be a gounding problem and that the internal fuse may have blown, which is entirely possible because I bought the guitar that was in the acoustic room on display at the shop where I bought it. He's sending me a couple of fuses, which I will have replaced at the shop.

Today I received the V-Cable and tested it right away... with the amp on carpet and on hardwood flooring to see if that made any difference. It didn't. I am still getting the hissing, which gets worse when I add treble or volume at the guitar. The cable didn't help at all, so now I feel like I spent $XX on a cable that I don't need, although it is a nice cable. The hissing doesn't stop when I touch the strings, and there is no hissing when connected to my electric amp.

Any ideas? Do you think it's a problem with the Fishman? The ES System? I'm perplexed. 

Jim



edited for price

[cjd-player]

Sounds like the Taylor fellow may be onto something with the blown fuse.  As I understand it, the ES will still function, but the ground is lost.  I'd wait 'till the fuses arrive before drawing any additional conclusions.

You don't really need a V-cable with the ES system.  A V-cable is just a standard unbalanced  1/4 inch cable with a built-in volume control.  The ES already has a volume control on the guitar.   

The alternative cable for an ES Taylor would be the balanced TRS to XLR cable, but then your amp must have an XLR in jack, or you need an XLR to 1/4 inch converter.

[darylcrisp]

Jim

i know it can be aggravating to have things of this sort happen, but i do say you are in the best of hands IMO. I think Taylor has the absolute best customer service in the guitar community-and i find it a huge plus to be able to simply dial up someone and get things discussed or taken care of. it may take a little time and some investigation but you will have a kicking guitar when this is fixed-and it will get fixed.

some suggestions. take the guitar and a few of your different cables to a store and try out a couple different amps-to see if you amp is okay-also check each cable to make sure they are up and up.

next i would call taylor customer service and ask for a recommendation of a good taylor tech in your area(unless you trust the GC where you purchased it)-take it there for them to diagnose and fix the problem. if thats not available, check to see if a Roadshow or Find the best Fit event is happening near you and take it.

it does sound like a grounding issue to me with what i am reading, but without hands on i'm more lost than anyone at this point.

have you removed the strings and peered inside with a light and mirror to check the preamp unit and wires? i would do that and wiggle a hand in there and make sure everything is plugged in well.

best of luck on this and most definitely keep us posted-and i'll leave you with this thought. even if your ES unit is defective, its any easy fix and replacement, and Taylor will get your items to you quickly.
d

[roadbiker]

Jim

i know it can be aggravating to have things of this sort happen, but i do say you are in the best of hands IMO. I think Taylor has the absolute best customer service in the guitar community-and i find it a huge plus to be able to simply dial up someone and get things discussed or taken care of. it may take a little time and some investigation but you will have a kicking guitar when this is fixed-and it will get fixed.

some suggestions. take the guitar and a few of your different cables to a store and try out a couple different amps-to see if you amp is okay-also check each cable to make sure they are up and up.

next i would call taylor customer service and ask for a recommendation of a good taylor tech in your area(unless you trust the GC where you purchased it)-take it there for them to diagnose and fix the problem. if thats not available, check to see if a Roadshow or Find the best Fit event is happening near you and take it.

it does sound like a grounding issue to me with what i am reading, but without hands on i'm more lost than anyone at this point.

have you removed the strings and peered inside with a light and mirror to check the preamp unit and wires? i would do that and wiggle a hand in there and make sure everything is plugged in well.

best of luck on this and most definitely keep us posted-and i'll leave you with this thought. even if your ES unit is defective, its any easy fix and replacement, and Taylor will get your items to you quickly.
d

Thanks for the feedback (no pun intended ). I'm not too worried, I'm pretty confident that it will work out in the end. Even though I bought the Taylor V-Cable, I got a good price on it, considering it sells elsewhere for over $XX, I guess I'm stuck with it.

I didn't buy my 814 at GC; I bought it at a local shop called Ken Stanton Music and they are a really reputable shop here in the Atlanta area. I'm sure that they will take care of it for me, and I'll bring them a new fuse when I get them from Taylor.

You're right about the Taylor customer service. I never got a recording. The operator picked up and transferred me to the service department and withi three rings I was talking to the tech. He made a point of teling me that the fuse was not a warrantable item, but since the guitar is new he's sending me a couple of fuses. I had registered the guitar when I bought it and he was able to get the serial number, my address, etc. It was a pleasant surprise.

The shop where I bought mine has a Loudbox Mini on display, so maybe I'll take your advice and bring my guitar there to see if the same thing happens. I saw a used and in perfect condition Kustom Sienna acoustic amp on sale at the local GC for $XX. If I can negotiate it down to $XX I may pick it up. My Epiphone has 2 output jacks, so I could take advantage of it, and the amp is just a little bigger than the Mini. I just have to decide whether or not I want to spend the money with Christmas so recently behind me...

Thanks again,
Jim




edited for price

[leeasam]

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actually the V cable is more made for the ES Go pickup for the GS mini. Not recommended for the Full ES in the higher end models. no need for it as you have a volume on the guitar. The ES is also a balanced Low Impedence system. It works best if using a balanced cable but the instrument input on the loud box is NOT balanced low Imp. So using a TRS 1/4 to guitar to a XLR then to an impedence matcher that goes to Hi imp unbablanced to amp input you will get the best results. Personally for what I know of the ES I would not buy an amp that did not have both balanced and unbalanced inputs on both channels.

it could also be a blown fuse but even with that get the cables as described and it will sound the best.

[roadbiker]

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actually the V cable is more made for the ES Go pickup for the GS mini. Not recommended for the Full ES in the higher end models. no need for it as you have a volume on the guitar. The ES is also a balanced Low Impedence system. It works best if using a balanced cable but the instrument input on the loud box is NOT balanced low Imp. So using a TRS 1/4 to guitar to a XLR then to an impedence matcher that goes to Hi imp unbablanced to amp input you will get the best results. Personally for what I know of the ES I would not buy an amp that did not have both balanced and unbalanced inputs on both channels.

it could also be a blown fuse but even with that get the cables as described and it will sound the best.

Wow. Thanks for the advice. Can you recommend a specific cable? It seems odd that the ES system would need such a specific matching between the guitar and the amp.

Thanks again, Jim

[dcopper]

Roadbiker,
I use Mogami balanced cables. I think Monster balanced cables are fine as well and sturdy under stage use. There are tons of threads about cables and many cable "Shoot-outs" but they can be a bit overwhelming. The best scenario for the ES is a balanced cable as everyone indicated.
The V-cable was designed for the Go pickup in the mini after folks complained about a lack of volume control.
Best luck with your issues but it does sound like a grounding problem especially when you already have changed amps.
davidc

[roadbiker]

So I have been looking into balanced cables and so far the only ones I've found that are clearly marked as balanced have a 3 or 4 plug female XLR on one end.  The problem with that is that the Loudbox Mini use a 1/4" plug for the guitar and the XLR for the Mic. Mogami has one with 1/4" plug on each end called Mogami Gold Instrument R (90 degree angle on one end), but it doesn't say whether or not it it balanced.

Any suggestions?

Jim

[cjd-player]

If the Loudbox Mini does not accept a balanced signal from the instrument, either by way of a female XLR jack or a female TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4-inch jack, then there is no sense in you obtaining a balanced cable.  The signal will become unbalanced at the input jack to the amp.   If that is the case, then any standard 1/4-inch cable will do.  I would check the owners manual to see if the instrument-in 1/4-inch jack is balanced (TRS).

EDIT:  I just looked at the online user's guide for the Loudbox Mini.  According to the block circuit diagram, the instrument-in jack is not a TRS (stereo) jack.  So there is definitely no point in you getting a balanced cable unless you want to plug into the microphone input.  The problem there is that you have less EQ control; only lows and highs, no mids.

Hopefully a new ES fuse will solve your hissing problem. Then you only need a standard 1/4-inch cable to go from the guitar to the amp.

[roadbiker]

If the Loudbox Mini does not accept a balanced signal from the instrument, either by way of a female XLR jack or a female TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4-inch jack, then there is no sense in you obtaining a balanced cable.  The signal will become unbalanced at the input jack to the amp.   If that is the case, then any standard 1/4-inch cable will do.  I would check the owners manual to see if the instrument-in 1/4-inch jack is balanced (TRS).

EDIT:  I just looked at the online user's guide for the Loudbox Mini.  According to the block circuit diagram, the instrument-in jack is not a TRS (stereo) jack.  So there is definitely no point in you getting a balanced cable unless you want to plug into the microphone input.  The problem there is that you have less EQ control; only lows and highs, no mids.

Hopefully a new ES fuse will solve your hissing problem. Then you only need a standard 1/4-inch cable to go from the guitar to the amp.

Thanks Carl. I appreciate you looking into it for me. Perhaps I should consider sending back the Mini and getting something different? How can I determine that the amp has a TRS input?

Thanks again, Jim

[roadbiker]

Problem solved! I replaced the ES system fuse and no more hissing. Just nice, clean sound. I discovered that I like the Elixer Nanoweb 80/20's even less when played through the amp. I'm going to leave them on a little longer and then try the D'Addario XLR P/B's. I have been using A"Ddarrio P/B's for years and have always liked them.

Thanks again everyone!
Jim

[Edward]

You are the very first person I've heard that has had to replace that fuse ...interesting.  Good to know; thanks a bunch for sharing that!

Edward

[cjd-player]

Glad to hear it was as simple as a fuse replacement.

[coldshot]

G day Jim,
The easiest way to check if your cable is balanced or not is, a balanced cable the 1/4" shank where it fits into the guitar and amp has two rubber "o" ring and an unbalanced cable only has one.

[roadbiker]

Update: the fuse blew again. I spoke to Taylor service and will be taking the guitar to an authorized repair center in Atlanta to diagnose and fix the problem. The fuse should not be blowing from static electricity (confirmed by Taylor).

Jim