The "old" Taylor forum is gone

[cotten]

I think the issue is that the policy is not consistently enforced.  There have been numerous times when posters were referred to the "Lets Talk Guild" forum or the UMGF with no censorship from moderators.

You're right, of course, but there are at least two things to consider. 1) Neither Let's Talk Guild nor the UMGF are actively seeking to build their forums via invitations, public and/or private, being sent to AGF members, and 2) Since the AGF averages 1,200-1,500+ posts per day, there is no possible way for a tiny group of dedicated volunteers, each of whom has a very full life away from a computer, to consistently enforce every forum rule. The members are a huge help in spotting and reporting potential problems.

One other comment, if I may. Encouraging a forum's members to abide by the rules to which they agreed as a condition for membership is not exactly "censorship," though I suppose it could be seen that way by those who have decided they no longer wish to keep that commitment. 

cotten

[cjd-player]

Encouraging a forum's members to abide by the rules to which they agreed as a condition for membership is not exactly "censorship," though I suppose it could be seen that way by those who have decided they no longer wish to keep that commitment. 

cotten

I did not mean censorship in a negative way.  I was only referring to the activity of deleting posts. 

I would add though that references to Lets Talk guild and the UMGT are so common on the AGF that I doubt many folks see the references as breaking the rules.   I don't believe I ever saw an instance where there was a deleted post because of the references. 

[byrd]

You're right, of course, but there are at least two things to consider. 1) Neither Let's Talk Guild nor the UMGF are actively seeking to build their forums via invitations, public and/or private, being sent to AGF members, and 2) Since the AGF averages 1,200-1,500+ posts per day, there is no possible way for a tiny group of dedicated volunteers, each of whom has a very full life away from a computer, to consistently enforce every forum rule. The members are a huge help in spotting and reporting potential problems.
cotten

I just have two comments:
1)  After reading the rules over at the AGF, I see no specific rule stating that the discussion of other web forums is prohibited.  I tried to read carefully, but I certainly could have missed it (Did I???).  Otherwise the only thing I see is this: "THE BOTTOM LINE The Staff reserve the right to delete or edit any posts."  This would easily justify the arbitrary nature by which some posts are allowed and others are deleted. 

2)  While I agree that under typical circumstances, taking advantage of the membership rolls of one forum in order to build the membership of a second forum could be considered unsavory, I believe this situation to be little different.  Let's Talk Guild and the UMGF were never the central reason for the existence of the AGF.  To my mind, it's like going to your favorite coffee shop and finding that it's gone, but it really hasn't closed down.  It just moved a few miles down the road, but no one left a sign.  If I wasn't lucky enough to actually SEE a post on the AGF pointing to the UTGF (before Jan 1st), I'm might feel like the rug had been pulled out from under me right now.  Who's to say that all infrequent AGF Taylor forum visitors had recently visited before Jan 1st?  If they simply let the changeover follow its natural coarse, I'm sure all the Taylor fanatics would eventually find a new home and any links pointing to this forum or any other Taylor forum would eventually become more and more infrequent.

[jjrpilot-admin]

Hi everyone!  Sorry for my abscence, I've been out of town and won't be back until late Friday.  AGF discussion is fine as long as it doesn't pit us vs them.  I hope you all keep your AGF membership.  I know there seems to be confusion with bashing another forum vs discussing another forum.  Here's the bottom line: just be respectful. 

[roadbiker]

There is a thread specifically about this over there and this was my response...

"Personally I disagree with the decision. I have a Guild and a semi-regular participant in the Let's Talk Guild forum which is dedicated to Guild guitars. Other brands are discussed as well, but it's interesting to observe the variety of posts related specifically to Guild and due to the focus on Guild guitars, there is a plethora of experience. Not that there isn't here - there is vast expertise on this forum as well and I find myself spending quite a bit of time here too, but the reason I initially joined this group was because I bought a Taylor and was looking for the same experience that I enjoy for my Guild.

Jim"

I will have to admit, however, that there are still active discussions on a variety of Taylor subject.  Never-the-less I stand by my opinion and I am glad the there is the UTGF! I remain a fairly regular participant over "there" as well, but I imagine this will become the place where most of the Taylor expertise resides (or maybe on the Taylor site).

Jim

[dsamuel24]

Hi everyone!  Sorry for my abscence, I've been out of town and won't be back until late Friday.  AGF discussion is fine as long as it doesn't pit us vs them.  I hope you all keep your AGF membership.  I know there seems to be confusion with bashing another forum vs discussing another forum.  Here's the bottom line: just be respectful. 

I wholeheartedly agree! And since the forum owner gives latitude, and Rule #3 does as well, then I think that pretty much sums up where the admin of this forum should stand in regards to any type of "AGF-specific censorship" across the board. I believe we can respectfully voice the feelings we have about what we may not have fully agreed with "over there" and how we can do it "better" (as relative and personal-perspective driven as that is), or at least in a more productive manner, over here without bashing or pitting us vs them. jjr's post clearly indicates the desire to move forward in self-moderated freedom, and I say AMEN brother! 

[Andromeda]

I noticed that Guitar Rodeo is also no longer a sponser on the AGF...that almost hurt as bad to see.

I noticed that too and was sad. I know it took a while for Jim to be a sponsor there so it was sad to see him go.

[michaelw]

this is based on how i feel personally ('takes moderator cap off') -
i think that now that the AGF truly is the AGF, with all wood acoustic steel string guitars
that can be discussed in one area, rather than having different brands in separate subforums,
along with luthier/smaller builds, carbon fiber, nylon, electric & other stringed instruments

imho, the AGF works because they do what is in the best interest for their forum &
the moderators/admin on the AGF do what is right for their forum as a whole -
there are times when i have not agreed with their decisions, but i respect them &
their judgment & they have built a successful forum ... hope 2012 will be great for all

('puts mod cap back on')
that is all

[cjd-player]

this is based on how i feel personally ('takes moderator cap off') -
i think that now that the AGF truly is the AGF, with all wood acoustic steel string guitars
that can be discussed in one area, rather than having different brands in separate subforums,
along with luthier/smaller builds, carbon fiber, nylon, electric & other stringed instruments
...

('puts mod cap back on')
that is all

I think that overall that is a good thing.  But like Martin, Guild and others, it is nice to have a brand-specific forum as well.

And this place is GREAT!

[cotten]

...To my mind, it's like going to your favorite coffee shop and finding that it's gone, but it really hasn't closed down.  It just moved a few miles down the road, but no one left a sign... 

To me, the coffee shop didn't close, they just decided to no longer have a private room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts. The menu is exactly the same, and that coffee shop is very much open for business.

That said, I realize that there are some of us chocolate cream with sprinkles lovers who prefer having a private dining room just for us. Nothing wrong with that - there's plenty of room for all! I appreciate the effort it takes to provide just such a place a couple of blocks down the street, and make sure it has just the right kind of friendly, helpful atmosphere. 

cotten

[byrd]

To me, the coffee shop didn't close, they just decided to no longer have a private room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts. The menu is exactly the same, and that coffee shop is very much open for business.

...And if any of the patrons of said coffee shop felt kind enough to share with you that there actually still is a place that has a room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts... it would be nice if they were permitted to share that knowledge.  How many folks are still sitting in the old coffee shop wishing that there was still a special room in which they could enjoy their chocolate cream donuts with sprinkles?  I wholeheartedly agree that there's nothing wrong with such a dining establishment.  That's why I feel that there should be nothing wrong with talking about it, even in another coffee shop.

Whew... that's a belabored analogy!!   

[not darth]

Taking the donut analogy in a slightly different view, one must consider the extremely high volume of posts over there and how quickly posts scroll to the next page or further. 
The Taylor subforum was not a separate room, it was a second order/pickup window for donuts with sprinkles. 
I'll explain.

The Taylor subforum was the 2nd most active, and by eliminating it now all members stand in the same bakery line with everyone else whether they want sprinkles or not, and EVERYONE has to wade through the 'donut menu' (posts of interest) looking for the flavor they prefer.  Then the baker has to find the donuts with sprinkles, but they're moving so fast on the conveyor all he can grab is a bagel, which he hands to the customer and says "it's basically the same".   

It's not about having an 'elite' spot for Taylor fanboy's, it should be about a forum's leadership recognizing the volume and theme of posts and sticking them in subforums so as to enhance everyone's experience at the site. 
Really, in many ways it makes more sense to have a Taylor subforum at an acoustic guitar forum, than it does to have an electric subforum.  This is just my opinion, of course.  AGF can do whatever they feel is best for AGF, I have no hard feelings, I just don't like it.

Gotta go, I'm craving pastries for some odd reason! 
-K

[dsamuel24]

To me, the coffee shop didn't close, they just decided to no longer have a private room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts. The menu is exactly the same, and that coffee shop is very much open for business.

...And if any of the patrons of said coffee shop felt kind enough to share with you that there actually still is a place that has a room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts... it would be nice if they were permitted to share that knowledge.  How many folks are still sitting in the old coffee shop wishing that there was still a special room in which they could enjoy their chocolate cream donuts with sprinkles?  I wholeheartedly agree that there's nothing wrong with such a dining establishment.  That's why I feel that there should be nothing wrong with talking about it, even in another coffee shop.

Whew... that's a belabored analogy!! 

Not belabored at all... very pertinent. And I totally agree. Hopefully, THIS coffee shop will ALWAYS be a place where said conversations will be allowed to take place without interference and heavy-handed scrutiny from the waitstaff or management. 

[Cindy]

Not belabored at all... very pertinent. And I totally agree. Hopefully, THIS coffee shop will ALWAYS be a place where said conversations will be allowed to take place without interference and micro-management from the waitstaff or management. 

Hello good-lookin'. My name is Cindy and I'll be your waitress.



 

[cjd-player]

Hello good-lookin'. My name is Cindy and I'll be your waitress.
 

Hey Josh, I think you need a "No Solicitation" Rule   

Gotta watch those Pennsylvania gals.