The "old" Taylor forum is gone

[Paul]

I went clicking on the other forum looking for Taylor Guitar Forum but couldn't find it

Wonder how many here that doesn't own a Taylor yet.

Or am I the only one, will I be kicked out 

or will 2012 be the year that I finally own one

You'll not be asked to leave, I'm sure of that.

And.........when you get ready to make your first Taylor purchase, this would be a good place to post a "Want To Buy" ad in the classifieds. I'm sure you would find a well cared for Taylor at a good price.

Welcome,

Gary

Just kiddin'

Sir, would you be posting a "want to sell" ad soon

This forum is great, by the time I can purchase my first Taylor, I know the details and specs and what to expect.

cheers
Paul

[spieler]

Hello good-lookin'. My name is Cindy and I'll be your waitress.
 

Hey Josh, I think you need a "No Solicitation" Rule   

 

~ S.

[Ed422]

Hello good-lookin'. My name is Cindy and I'll be your waitress.
 

Hey Josh, I think you need a "No Solicitation" Rule   

Gotta watch those Pennsylvania gals.
 

I spent some time watching PA girls...  but that was before I was married.  (grin)

Ed

[dsamuel24]

Not belabored at all... very pertinent. And I totally agree. Hopefully, THIS coffee shop will ALWAYS be a place where said conversations will be allowed to take place without interference and micro-management from the waitstaff or management. 

Hello good-lookin'. My name is Cindy and I'll be your waitress.

 

This had me laughing out loud... touche!

(in the back of my mind I'm wondering if I should still be wary of that sweet-as-pie waitress who, when I am not looking, might come up and clang me in the back of the head with a cast iron skillet cause she thinks I look like her ex?)    That's a joke, people... don't get your dishrags in a twist. 

[bo1142]

The other site has been gone for a month now, at least for me.  Thanks again Josh!

[michaelw]

The other site has been gone for a month now, at least for me.  Thanks again Josh!

c'mon, Boone ...
say it with me, now

'AGF'

everything's gonna be alright

[cotten]

...And if any of the patrons of said coffee shop felt kind enough to share with you that there actually still is a place that has a room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts... it would be nice if they were permitted to share that knowledge...

Thanks for going with my rather weak analogy. They all break down at some point! 

But since we're still toying with the coffee shop idea, consider this. A well established coffee shop decides to no longer offer a private dining room for a particular group of their customers. One of them decides to go down the street and open a new place of business that caters specifically to those customers. Should the original coffee shop then offer free advertising for the other shop, the purpose of which would be to draw customers away from themselves and to the new place?

I'm not much of a business man, but I don't remember seeing McDonalds signs over at Burger King, or signs along the walkway on the Martin Factory tour providing their customers directions to the Taylor Guitar Factory

I know, I know. The use of a business analogy really breaks down at this point. Still, there is that element of advertising here, right?  Should one forum that has grown so large that it depends on voluntary income from Charter Members and Sponsors to pay for its operating expenses allow free advertising for a new forum intent on drawing its own members away? The owner of the established forum wisely decided no, he should not allow that. Again, he made that decision at least ten years ago when it was his forum that was called the Taylor Guitar Forum.

I hope this helps everyone to understand the reason the AGF doesn't promote other forums, even a good one like this. If not, I've done my best. I'll not respond in this thread further. I've probably said too much already.  Say, anybody think that the pre-revoiced Grand Concerts weren't really all that bad?   

cotten

[michaelw]

...Say, anybody think that the pre-revoiced Grand Concerts weren't really all that bad?   

cotten

oh ... i think i know the answer to this one

'4th of july pic'

i'll try to find some better pics, but in the meantime, if you like maple
http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=672.0

[Gutch]

Hmmm...  Looks like we now have our official forum food / poll option:

DONUTS!

Look out pizza, here comes a new sweetie into town...

[cjd-player]

Hmmm...  Looks like we now have our official forum food ...

DONUTS!

... here comes a new sweetie into town...

Cindy ? 


 

[Gary0319]

...And if any of the patrons of said coffee shop felt kind enough to share with you that there actually still is a place that has a room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts... it would be nice if they were permitted to share that knowledge...

Thanks for going with my rather weak analogy. They all break down at some point! 

But since we're still toying with the coffee shop idea, consider this. A well established coffee shop decides to no longer offer a private dining room for a particular group of their customers. One of them decides to go down the street and open a new place of business that caters specifically to those customers. Should the original coffee shop then offer free advertising for the other shop, the purpose of which would be to draw customers away from themselves and to the new place?

I'm not much of a business man, but I don't remember seeing McDonalds signs over at Burger King, or signs along the walkway on the Martin Factory tour providing their customers directions to the Taylor Guitar Factory

I know, I know. The use of a business analogy really breaks down at this point. Still, there is that element of advertising here, right?  Should one forum that has grown so large that it depends on voluntary income from Charter Members and Sponsors to pay for its operating expenses allow free advertising for a new forum intent on drawing its own members away? The owner of the established forum wisely decided no, he should not allow that. Again, he made that decision at least ten years ago when it was his forum that was called the Taylor Guitar Forum.

I hope this helps everyone to understand the reason the AGF doesn't promote other forums, even a good one like this. If not, I've done my best. I'll not respond in this thread further. I've probably said too much already.  Say, anybody think that the pre-revoiced Grand Concerts weren't really all that bad?   

cotten

I'll agree that I don't expect the original coffee shop to put up advertising, like with a sticky, but if you put muzzles on your customers when thay talk about the new place down the street, it also makes it hard for them to swallow your own donuts.

Gary

[Saxacat]

The AGF is a valuable resource to anyone owning acoustic guitars, no matter which manufacturer they prefer. When I started playing 3 years ago I found AGF a big help in so many ways. I didn’t own a Taylor then and never imagined I would, I just wanted a place were I could get information about acoustic guitars, from fellow enthusiasts. AGF was just what I wanted and needed; it still fulfils that requirement. When I stopped using AGF, about 2 years ago, I missed it.

The UTGF looks like its going to be a great place for Taylor enthusiasts and I visit the site many times a day, and if I have a problem with one of my none Taylor guitars, I will still feel comfortable asking about it on UTGF; one of the things we have in common is that we are lovers of guitars

There are many members of this forum that have plainly said they value AGF and will continue to participate there, so I do not see how this forum can be seen as a threat to AGF.

I think AGF would gain much kudos if they put a sticky on the forum explaining the removal of the Taylor sub forum and that AGF welcomes lovers of all makes of acoustic guitars. They could then point out that there are other sites such as the UTGF and the Official Taylor Forum (when it starts), just as there are for other acoustic guitar manufacturers.

Using the shop analogy; when a shop I am in has told me they don’t have or stock what I want, but then direct me to somewhere that might have the item, I have always tried to make sure I put some business the way of the first shop at a later date.

[e8n]

I know, I know. The use of a business analogy really breaks down at this point. Still, there is that element of advertising here, right?  Should one forum that has grown so large that it depends on voluntary income from Charter Members and Sponsors to pay for its operating expenses allow free advertising for a new forum intent on drawing its own members away? The owner of the established forum wisely decided no, he should not allow that. Again, he made that decision at least ten years ago when it was his forum that was called the Taylor Guitar Forum.

I've seen this comment quite often and it really bothers me.  The implication is that AGF is scraping by because of the charter member income and sponsors.  If that is true JR has been doing it wrong for a long time based on what advertisers pay etc.  He's making good money on the forum and it is a pretty decent sized business.

Is it wrong to protect that business by not allowing links.  Absolutely not.  Like you said, McDonalds doesn't have Burger King advertising in its lobby.  But to make it look like it is some noble cause that is being pursued is also not honest to the members and visitors.

-Dave

[dsamuel24]

...And if any of the patrons of said coffee shop felt kind enough to share with you that there actually still is a place that has a room for those who prefer sprinkles on their chocolate cream donuts... it would be nice if they were permitted to share that knowledge...

Thanks for going with my rather weak analogy. They all break down at some point! 

But since we're still toying with the coffee shop idea, consider this. A well established coffee shop decides to no longer offer a private dining room for a particular group of their customers. One of them decides to go down the street and open a new place of business that caters specifically to those customers. Should the original coffee shop then offer free advertising for the other shop, the purpose of which would be to draw customers away from themselves and to the new place?

I'm not much of a business man, but I don't remember seeing McDonalds signs over at Burger King, or signs along the walkway on the Martin Factory tour providing their customers directions to the Taylor Guitar Factory

I know, I know. The use of a business analogy really breaks down at this point. Still, there is that element of advertising here, right?  Should one forum that has grown so large that it depends on voluntary income from Charter Members and Sponsors to pay for its operating expenses allow free advertising for a new forum intent on drawing its own members away? The owner of the established forum wisely decided no, he should not allow that. Again, he made that decision at least ten years ago when it was his forum that was called the Taylor Guitar Forum.

I hope this helps everyone to understand the reason the AGF doesn't promote other forums, even a good one like this. If not, I've done my best. I'll not respond in this thread further. I've probably said too much already.  Say, anybody think that the pre-revoiced Grand Concerts weren't really all that bad?   

cotten

I'll agree that I don't expect the original coffee shop to put up advertising, like with a sticky, but if you put muzzles on your customers when thay talk about the new place down the street, it also makes it hard for them to swallow your own donuts.

Gary

+1. Very well said.

There are many members of this forum that have plainly said they value AGF and will continue to participate there, so I do not see how this forum can be seen as a threat to AGF.

I think AGF would gain much kudos if they put a sticky on the forum explaining the removal of the Taylor sub forum and that AGF welcomes lovers of all makes of acoustic guitars. They could then point out that there are other sites such as the UTGF and the Official Taylor Forum (when it starts), just as there are for other acoustic guitar manufacturers.

Using the shop analogy; when a shop I am in has told me they don’t have or stock what I want, but then direct me to somewhere that might have the item, I have always tried to make sure I put some business the way of the first shop at a later date.

Also +1. Also VERY well said.


IMO... there are basically 2 choices in a situation like this (again, my view only) -
 
1) tight-fisted, scowl on your face, unwilling to share or be nice/kind even when you feel you've been wronged = the perception of a scrooge that will likely perpetuate the VERY thing you are trying to aviod (i.e. the loss of members, etc.)

2) open-handed, smile on your face, willing to share and be nice/kind even when you feel you've been wronged = the perception of a benevolent "santa" (for lack of a better term/analogy) that will likely perpetuate the retention of the majority of what you have now (i.e. members, etc.) AND a gaining of more due to a positive and welcoming attitude.

[spieler]

I know, I know. The use of a business analogy really breaks down at this point. Still, there is that element of advertising here, right?  Should one forum that has grown so large that it depends on voluntary income from Charter Members and Sponsors to pay for its operating expenses allow free advertising for a new forum intent on drawing its own members away? The owner of the established forum wisely decided no, he should not allow that. Again, he made that decision at least ten years ago when it was his forum that was called the Taylor Guitar Forum.

I've seen this comment quite often and it really bothers me.  The implication is that AGF is scraping by because of the charter member income and sponsors.  If that is true JR has been doing it wrong for a long time based on what advertisers pay etc.  He's making good money on the forum and it is a pretty decent sized business.
-Dave

Dave, I agree; the CEO incident has made most donuts since that time hard to swallow (I mix and match my analogies well :-).

When someone communicates "We Need You(r Money) To Survive, because You Make This Place What It Is" and then makes decisions that belie that need or reflect that some people's/sponsors'/entities' dollars and wishes are more important than others, it's best to be up front about the change(s). Minimally.

Pertinent to this forum, and hope for the future: Whatever Josh decides, whatever the Mods agree to, I hope he and they think money issues through as thoroughly as possible and present a consistent, logical message throughout. Every forum I've participated in eventually requires increased bandwith and storage space, sometimes sooner than anticipated. Even just continued bandwith costs actual money.

I don't mean to indicate that someone's donating a dollar, or hundreds of dollars, entitles them to have a "say" over and against the forum owner's/chief administrator's desires.

However, it would be a shame here for those overseeing the bigger decisions here were to communicate, "We need *you* to make this place great!" then make decisions without the input of those already invested, and counter to what they had invested in, then tell them, "It's a good decision, you'll see, I don't see what the problem is, this is not your house, and also don't talk about it."

In as many words.

Maybe just let us know if and when this turns into a for-profit venture? 

~ S.