Author Topic: sapele vs ovangkol  (Read 30442 times)

jmg257

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 10:03:11 AM »
This always helps!



Picked up a 514ce (cedar over Mahogany) and they nailed what tone could be expected to a T.

ewalling

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 12:27:11 PM »
Judging by that diagram, Macassar ebony looks like the worst of all worlds!      ;)

michaelw

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 10:38:37 AM »
Quote
The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

Great news, everyone!  Our 800- and 900-series guitars have been declared to be ridiculous!  Thank goodness!  We can now get rid of these guitars so that we may live without suffering the tyranny of bling.
just wondering which is the most ridiculous ???
800 I                                                                                                     800 II

900 II                                                                                                    900 III/V


once that is determined, i may consider it on an all koa deep body dread BTO ;)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 06:35:19 PM by michaelw »
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ewalling

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 07:32:18 PM »
just wondering which is the most ridiculous ???

My vote goes to the impression of a woman's ovaries!     ;D

(Sorry Michael - couldn't resist! Just kidding, of course. They look great.)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:51:07 PM by ewalling »

tnfiddler

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2012, 01:09:26 AM »
As mentioned in an earlier post, try to find both and have someone play them while you stand in front and hear them. I liked my 614ce while I was playing it. I LOVE it since I heard it while our guitar player was jamming on it!
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espgnlo

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2012, 02:10:12 PM »
I just purchased a 356ce 12 string. The combination of sapele and spruce is incredible. No muddy bass, midrange is just right, and it does jangle! I was just at a Taylor road show a couple of weeks ago. The Taylor rep demonstrated an ovangkol guitar. He mentioned the wood looks like the paneling in your grandfather's basement, but said check out the sound. And it was great. I am happy with my new 356 and the wood combination. But if you choose ovangkol you'll be doing just fine. You'll be buying a "quality guitar"!
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RGtheMusicGuy

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2012, 08:33:40 PM »
I think Sapele vs Ovangkol is similar to the Mahog vs Rosewood argument.  It depends on your tastes.

On inlays I think everything else is tame compared to this.

KevinIndiana

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2012, 10:26:28 AM »
Quote
The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

Great news, everyone!  Our 800- and 900-series guitars have been declared to be ridiculous!  Thank goodness!  We can now get rid of these guitars so that we may live without suffering the tyranny of bling.

LOL... Glad I read this thread.  I'm busy using a black Sharpie to obliterate the fretboard inlays on my 816ce.  I had no idea how stupid I was for liking them.   :-[  Embarrassing.  Thankfully, now I'll have a non-ridiculous plain fretboard.  I'm thinking of using some White-Out to paint a few dots, though. I get lost easily!  ;)
Kevin
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KevinIndiana

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 10:36:52 AM »

I think that is false.  Taylor would not likely do that because the buyers generally will not pay more for Sapele than for Ovangkol.  You might argue the consumer is wrong but that is beside the point. The 300 and 400 series have identical appointments and their willingness to pay significantly more for Ovangkol should not be chalked up to silly buyers fooled by a numbering scheme.

My own experience was that I preferred the Ovangkol over Sapele for accompanying my voice.   Heck I liked it better than the Rosewood models costing thousands more.

Not to nitpick, but that is not true. The 400 has [multiple choice: A. nicer, B. more ridiculous, C. larger, D. more expensive, E. some combination of A through D] fretboard inlays (called "Progressive Dots") than the 300, which has "4mm Dots." I kinda like the progressive dots, but then I like my "ridiculous" 800 series fretboard inlays, so don't listen to me.  ;)
Kevin
2012 Taylor 816ce

Judson H

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 03:23:42 AM »
I agree with you totally, so I assume your reply was to Black Beauty and not to me (Blackville) ... ?

You make a reasonable point, but you may not be able to go by the prices listed on the BTO order sheet to calculate the value of wood upgrades on non-BTO models.  Granted, Sapele and Ovangkol are the same price on BTOs, but so are Indian Rosewood and Mahogany.  I believe the fact that the base price for any BTO sort of over-rides these relatively minor materials considerations, whereas on a standard 300 or 400 model, the price differential between Sapele and Ovangkol is more of an issue.  Some of it is marketing for sure, but Ovankgol generally is considered an upgrade over Sapele in the same way that EIR is considered an upgrade over Mahogany and is priced accordingly.

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

The original question, before the OP edited it, was whether white 'fibre' was more expensive than black plastic, hence the surcharge on the 400 series. The BTO sheet link I posted shows that the white 'fibre' is in fact white plastic, the same material as the black plastic on the 300 series. If they put white plastic on the 300 series and black plastic on the 400 series, the price is not going to change. If they made Sapele the 400 series and Ovangkol the 300 series the Sapele would be more expensive than Ovangkol. Marketing.

I think that is false.  Taylor would not likely do that because the buyers generally will not pay more for Sapele than for Ovangkol.  You might argue the consumer is wrong but that is beside the point. The 300 and 400 series have identical appointments and their willingness to pay significantly more for Ovangkol should not be chalked up to silly buyers fooled by a numbering scheme.

My own experience was that I preferred the Ovangkol over Sapele for accompanying my voice.   Heck I liked it better than the Rosewood models costing thousands more.
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asahi

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2012, 05:31:30 AM »
i've had an all mahoghany(cousin of the sapele) dread that i no longer own.  only because i didn't care for the warm sound, which was almost flat.  perhaps as a parlor guitar.

i do own a martin ovangkol w/rosewood wedge dread that i won't be giving up soon.  it sings.  i was surprised at its voice compared to sapele, mahoghany, and rosewoods.

i also have the 414ce ltd rosewood, which is a great guitar and tonally completely different from the ovangkol.

ovangkol is the most underrated wood.  at the local taylor/martin dealer, one of the long time sales guys told me his favorite guitar was the 414ce with the standard ovangkol.
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Strumming Fool

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2012, 09:57:13 AM »
I'm also a big ovangkol fan (see signature) for its "complete" tonal range, but as a reminder, the OP is considering ovangkol against sapele for a 12-string. Until I get to hear more ovangkol 12-strings, I'd still pick sapele for a 12-string, based on its zing and snap.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 02:00:27 PM by Strumming Fool »
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2014 K24e - master grade koa
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2019 614 - torrified sitka spruce/flamed maple
2020 714 - lutz spruce/rosewood

michaelw

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2012, 12:23:28 PM »
for me, depending on the body size being considered & the 12 strings models i've played/owned
the 455ce seemed to have a slightly more balanced tone, but the 356ce still gets 'the nod' (imho)

the current 300/400 series shows to have fiber listed as the heel cap material, which is likely the
same as the binding, although earlier models have used plastic & 04-06s has unbound fretboards -
the original 91-97 400 series had black binding, which was also used some LTDs models (00 LOTF maple)

up until this year, the aesthetics, other than the binding,  on the 300/400 series was the same -
large 6.33 mm MOP dot fretmarkers were used on both series, while the current the 300s have
4mm pearloid dots & the 400s have engraved 'progressive pearloid dots, so the change was recent

the difference in price between the 300 & 400s & the XX3/XX4s is roughly the same & seeing that the acoustic,
non-cutaway series has identical aesthetics in the 3 & 4s, the upcharge seems  to be purely for the different
tonewoods & could  be related to the differences in the process required from start-to-finish (wood-to-guitar)

on-the-other-hand, if both the 300 & 400 series had identical appointments, & pricing, the difference
would be in the tone & what the individual player prefers (which is the way it is on the acoustic 5-8s now)

pretty much everything being discussed here is subjective -
one likes what one likes & there is no 'right-or-wrong' answer

i believe that respecting each others opinions & agreeing-to-disagree is needed,
rather than trying to continually hammer away on a point where there is no 'winner'

ymmv
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asahi

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Re: sapele vs ovangkol
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 08:23:50 PM »
sapele i have found to be warm and like its mahoghany cousin it has a fireplace tone.
ovangkol on the other hand has a brighter voice with more punch.  the highs are crisper to me and the bass can pound if you like.
i sold a 000-15m and a sapele before i settled on my dc 16-ogte with ovangkol back/sides and eir wedge.  one of the best kept secrets in my opinion.

on the other hand my 414c-ltdr is just sweet.
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