sapele vs ovangkol

[DennisG]

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

Great news, everyone!  Our 800- and 900-series guitars have been declared to be ridiculous!  Thank goodness!  We can now get rid of these guitars so that we may live without suffering the tyranny of bling.

[lutehole]

Thanks all,

Has anyone compared an ovangkol 12-string to a sapele one?

Which one is more likely to have a muddy bass?

Which one is likely to be the better instrument? (i won't be able to try them before i buy them unfortunately but i am buying nonetheless)

[ewalling]

Thanks all,

Has anyone compared an ovangkol 12-string to a sapele one?

Which one is more likely to have a muddy bass?

Are you referring to clarity of note separation, or the lack thereof, when you talk of a "muddy bass"?

[lutehole]

Thanks all,

Has anyone compared an ovangkol 12-string to a sapele one?

Which one is more likely to have a muddy bass?

Are you referring to clarity of note separation, or the lack thereof, when you talk of a "muddy bass"?

I assume muddy bass means poor note separation... but specifically for a 12-string. I've heard they're both fine for 6string guitars but i want to check which one is better for a 12-string.

Cindy said i should ask to see if anyone has compared 12-string ovangkol to sapele as one might have a muddy bass. Has anyone compared the 455ce to the 355ce?

[ewalling]

I assume muddy bass means poor note separation... but specifically for a 12-string. I've heard they're both fine for 6string guitars but i want to check which one is better for a 12-string.
[/quote]

Just curious - I don't own, or aspire to own, a 12-string, but is clear note separation necessarily an advantage with this type of guitar? I would have thought that the blending of notes would be one its attractive features.

[Judson H]

As the proud owner of a GA3-12 sapele, I am very happy with the sound and playability.  I can't imagine ovangkol sounding any better.  So personally, even though I haven't compared them side-by-side, I would not pay the upcharge to get the ovangkol on the GA4-12.  For one trivial thing, aesthetically I'm not wild about the look of the contrasting color of the mahogany neck attached to the ovangkol body.

Thanks all,

Has anyone compared an ovangkol 12-string to a sapele one?

Which one is more likely to have a muddy bass?

Which one is likely to be the better instrument? (i won't be able to try them before i buy them unfortunately but i am buying nonetheless)

[lutehole]

Just curious - I don't own, or aspire to own, a 12-string, but is clear note separation necessarily an advantage with this type of guitar? I would have thought that the blending of notes would be one its attractive features.

I'm not sure. Maybe you are right.

[andyi5]

Every time I've played a solid sapele b/s model aginst ovangkol, I preferred the balanced warmth of the sapele. It seems to work really nicely with to balance the spruce top. I prefer the look too, sapele on the 3 series is beautiful, whereas I always think the 4 series ovangkol would look nicer glossed. Incidently, I played a GA3 just recently which I thought was marvellous, and as I recall had the white binding on it too. Very tempting....

[ewalling]

I'm a recent 3-series buyer - in my case, a GC3. I'm thoroughly delighted with it. It has a wonderful ring and sustain.

[Strumming Fool]

I had told you that I prefer ovangkol to sapele, although they're both fine choices. However, if I had to choose between the two for a 12 string, I'd probably go wth the sapele, based on how I think a 12-string should sound. Sapele's brightness and ample bass will provide the "jangle" and separation that I look for in a 12-string. Just my $.02...

[dangrunloh]

You make a reasonable point, but you may not be able to go by the prices listed on the BTO order sheet to calculate the value of wood upgrades on non-BTO models.  Granted, Sapele and Ovangkol are the same price on BTOs, but so are Indian Rosewood and Mahogany.  I believe the fact that the base price for any BTO sort of over-rides these relatively minor materials considerations, whereas on a standard 300 or 400 model, the price differential between Sapele and Ovangkol is more of an issue.  Some of it is marketing for sure, but Ovankgol generally is considered an upgrade over Sapele in the same way that EIR is considered an upgrade over Mahogany and is priced accordingly.

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

The original question, before the OP edited it, was whether white 'fibre' was more expensive than black plastic, hence the surcharge on the 400 series. The BTO sheet link I posted shows that the white 'fibre' is in fact white plastic, the same material as the black plastic on the 300 series. If they put white plastic on the 300 series and black plastic on the 400 series, the price is not going to change. If they made Sapele the 400 series and Ovangkol the 300 series the Sapele would be more expensive than Ovangkol. Marketing.

I think that is false.  Taylor would not likely do that because the buyers generally will not pay more for Sapele than for Ovangkol.  You might argue the consumer is wrong but that is beside the point. The 300 and 400 series have identical appointments and their willingness to pay significantly more for Ovangkol should not be chalked up to silly buyers fooled by a numbering scheme.

My own experience was that I preferred the Ovangkol over Sapele for accompanying my voice.   Heck I liked it better than the Rosewood models costing thousands more.

[lutehole]

My own experience was that I preferred the Ovangkol over Sapele for accompanying my voice.   Heck I liked it better than the Rosewood models costing thousands more.

Was that for a 12-string instrument?

[lutehole]

I had told you that I prefer ovangkol to sapele, although they're both fine choices. However, if I had to choose between the two for a 12 string, I'd probably go wth the sapele, based on how I think a 12-string should sound. Sapele's brightness and ample bass will provide the "jangle" and separation that I look for in a 12-string. Just my $.02...

Thanks for your input. If you're saying the sapele 12 will have the bass, brightness, jangle, separation...what would an ovangkol 12 soung like?
Much appreciated

[Strumming Fool]

I had told you that I prefer ovangkol to sapele, although they're both fine choices. However, if I had to choose between the two for a 12 string, I'd probably go wth the sapele, based on how I think a 12-string should sound. Sapele's brightness and ample bass will provide the "jangle" and separation that I look for in a 12-string. Just my $.02...

Thanks for your input. If you're saying the sapele 12 will have the bass, brightness, jangle, separation...what would an ovangkol 12 soung like?
Much appreciated

Responded to your PM. Hope that helps! Enjoy your quest!

[lutehole]

No, it wouldn't sound wrong. I believe that ovangkol is a great all-purpose tone wood that can satisfy both rosewood and mahogany tastes, much the same as Taylor's GA shape is a great all purpose tool for all different styles. When you get into specialized needs, such as fingerstyle, bluegrass, or 12-string guitars, it's important to consider tonewoods or shapes that support these. For 12-string, conventional wisdom has always leaned towards maple or mahogany. Sapele provides the best of both these tonewoods (IMO) for a great 12-string sound. Some of the best 12-string sounds I've ever heard came out of 300 series Taylors.
 

I thought i would add the above as it's a great contribution.
From what i've read on Taylor's website it seems that maple is good for a 12 because it has fast note decay, clean articulation and good note definition; mahogany has well-balanced tone, nice dynamic range and overtones; sapele is similar to hog but has a bit more treble zing; ovangkol is similar to rosewood but has a fuller midrange and slightly brighter top end.