sapele vs ovangkol

[lutehole]

I am trying to decide between purchasing a used 354ce and used 454ce. The price difference is approx $xxx more and the latter has fretboard binding and it is white fibre (i think) as opposed to black plastic.

Do you all think the fretboard binding+ovangkol woods+white fibre binding (i'm unsure if it's plastic) merit the additional $xxx? I wonder whether an ebony fretboard should be bound and whether the white fibre binding is more durable.

Thanks

edited for no pricing discussion rule

[lutehole]

Perhaps you didn't understand the question lol.

[lutehole]

I am asking if people prefer ovangkol, and more specifically, white fibre binding and a bound fingerboard, for practical reasons, over sapele and an unbound ebony board.

[ewalling]

What practical reasons would there be for preferring a bound fretboard? I've heard that in terms of any refretting that might eventually need doing, an unbound fretboard may be more practical.

I've had a few guitars in sapele and I love it. The ones I've had have had a sparkle that was lacking a little in a few of the mahogany guitars I've had (but that may just be a coincidence). I've owned one ovangkol guitar - a Lakewood dread - and that was also a great-sounding guitar. I'd be inclined to agree with Black Beauty on this one - the "upgrade" could well be more indicative of deft marketing than with any meaningful upgrade.

[Strumming Fool]

Not sure about Taylor's cost differences between sapele and ovangkol. They're both great woods; it probably will depend on what you like to hear in a guitar. While I truly like sapele, I usually prefer mahogany to it. I think that ovangkol blends some of the better aspects of both mahogany and rosewood, making more of an all-purpose tonewood. As far as binding, I believe that they're both plastic (which is considered the most durable material to use for this purpose). If I had to chose, I'd normally go for a darker vs light binding, but not always. A bound fingerboard can add some elegance to a guitar's overall appearance. In the end, you'll need to pick the instrument that speaks to you best. For me, it would be a 400 series vs a 300 series, but you can't go wrong with either... hope this helps.

[Cindy]

I have both a 314ce and a 414ce. The reason I have both is because they offer their own unique tonal qualities. The ovangkol is a little warmer while sapele is slightly brighter. For me the looks are secondary to the tone.

If you have the chance for someone to play both while you stand in front and listen, one might sound more pleasing to you than the other. Ovangkol tends to enhance the midrange and offers a little more bass while sapele is pretty much even from bass to treble.

If looks are more important to you than tone, then choose the one that is more attractive to you. Personally I prefer a lighter colored binding (like clothing, the lighter color binding appears to make the guitar look a little bigger to me while the darker binding is more slimming).

Go with the one that speaks to you...one of them will.

[jmg257]

Apparently the fretboard on the 354 is bound also. 

Strumming (edit: and now Cindy) seemed to nail it on most/all points. (I typically do not like white binding either).  I seriously doubt if the durability of the binding in either case would be an issue.  There is no practical reason I see to favor one over the other.

This one would have to be a pick-em based on the tone YOU hear between the ovangkol and sapele, and the astetics YOU prefer if they both sound good. 
IF I had to pick one I would initially lean towards the ovangkol for the same reasons as rosewood - wider tonal range.  If I already had a rosewood then I would hope to like the sapele as offering something different. 

[egkor]

The 354ce fret board is bound w/ black binding.

Gary K

[Judson H]

You make a reasonable point, but you may not be able to go by the prices listed on the BTO order sheet to calculate the value of wood upgrades on non-BTO models.  Granted, Sapele and Ovangkol are the same price on BTOs, but so are Indian Rosewood and Mahogany.  I believe the fact that the base price for any BTO sort of over-rides these relatively minor materials considerations, whereas on a standard 300 or 400 model, the price differential between Sapele and Ovangkol is more of an issue.  Some of it is marketing for sure, but Ovankgol generally is considered an upgrade over Sapele in the same way that EIR is considered an upgrade over Mahogany and is priced accordingly.

I understood it perfectly. Like I said, it's marketing. Because 400 is a higher number than 300, Taylor decided to charge more for the 400. Why don't you take a look at the price list for woods and binding material for yourself:

http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Taylor-2012-BTO-Acoustic-Worksheet-valid-thru-3-31.pdf

[Judson H]

All Taylor 300 series and up have bound fret boards.

I am asking if people prefer ovangkol, and more specifically, white fibre binding and a bound fingerboard, for practical reasons, over sapele and an unbound ebony board.

[lutehole]

All Taylor 300 series and up have bound fret boards.

I am asking if people prefer ovangkol, and more specifically, white fibre binding and a bound fingerboard, for practical reasons, over sapele and an unbound ebony board.

Are you sure the 354ce has fretboard binding? It is a 2011 model.

[michaelw]

depending on the year model 354/454ce, the 04-06s did not have fretboard binding -
the 300s were made with african 'mahogany' (khaya) then, rather  than sapele,
which gave the guitar more of a 'tropical' mahogany-type tone (not as much 'pop')

the 98-03 & 07-12 300 series are made of sapele & these models have bound fretboards -
the 100/200 series (except the DDX) have unbound fretboards & the end of the 'tangs' are visible


the tone should  be the determining factor, imho & if a cutaway, or electronics
is not a necessity, a used GA3/4(e)-12 model can likely be found with a little looking -
unless one was purchasing a guitar to 'flip it', i cannot understand why a determination
would be made purely on $ point ('i don't particularly care for the tone, but i got a great deal')

fretboard binding material have changed over the years (i believe from plastic to fiber back to plastic)
but it is what it is & unless the 300/400 series guitar in question is 04-06, the neck will have binding -
the 03 414ceL3 had an unbound neck also, but it was a 6 string cedar/mahogany gloss body

I am asking if people prefer ovangkol, and more specifically, white fibre binding and a bound fingerboard, for practical reasons, over sapele and an unbound ebony board.

for practical reasons, no -
i don't prefer one over the other

i'd be the wrong one to ask, as both models with these appointments reside
here (98 414 & 05 314) i like 'em both, each for their own (tonal) reasons

[Black Beauty]

You make a reasonable point, but you may not be able to go by the prices listed on the BTO order sheet to calculate the value of wood upgrades on non-BTO models.  Granted, Sapele and Ovangkol are the same price on BTOs, but so are Indian Rosewood and Mahogany.  I believe the fact that the base price for any BTO sort of over-rides these relatively minor materials considerations, whereas on a standard 300 or 400 model, the price differential between Sapele and Ovangkol is more of an issue.  Some of it is marketing for sure, but Ovankgol generally is considered an upgrade over Sapele in the same way that EIR is considered an upgrade over Mahogany and is priced accordingly.

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

The original question, before the OP edited it, was whether white 'fibre' was more expensive than black plastic, hence the surcharge on the 400 series. The BTO sheet link I posted shows that the white 'fibre' is in fact white plastic, the same material as the black plastic on the 300 series. If they put white plastic on the 300 series and black plastic on the 400 series, the price is not going to change. If they made Sapele the 400 series and Ovangkol the 300 series the Sapele would be more expensive than Ovangkol. Marketing.

[lutehole]

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

The original question, before the OP edited it, was whether white 'fibre' was more expensive than black plastic, hence the surcharge on the 400 series. The BTO sheet link I posted shows that the white 'fibre' is in fact white plastic, the same material as the black plastic on the 300 series. If they put white plastic on the 300 series and black plastic on the 400 series, the price is not going to change. If they made Sapele the 400 series and Ovangkol the 300 series the Sapele would be more expensive than Ovangkol. Marketing.

No, it was not whether white fibre is more expensive. Are you obsessed with marketing lol.

Moving on, does anybody know/have experience w whether the bass will become muddy (sapele vs ovangkol) on a 12-string?

[Judson H]

I can agree on the plastic binding color being a non-issue in pricing, but not the tone woods.

All of the Taylor straight acoustic models from 500-800 level are exactly the same price regardless of the tone wood choices ... rosewood, mahogany, maple ... cedar/spruce ... doesn't matter.  They're all priced the same.  I suppose that this actually could help support your theory, but I'm thinking it does not.

Personally, I think that rosewood is actually more expensive to acquire than mahogany, and ovangkol is more expensive than sapele, but on the higher-end models, Taylor has chosen just to average things out and ignore the differences in favor of simplifying the issue for buyers.  But, they continue to be more sensitive to costs on lower-end models and price 100/200/300/400 models according to the cost of the tone woods used. 

This is just my opinion.

You make a reasonable point, but you may not be able to go by the prices listed on the BTO order sheet to calculate the value of wood upgrades on non-BTO models.  Granted, Sapele and Ovangkol are the same price on BTOs, but so are Indian Rosewood and Mahogany.  I believe the fact that the base price for any BTO sort of over-rides these relatively minor materials considerations, whereas on a standard 300 or 400 model, the price differential between Sapele and Ovangkol is more of an issue.  Some of it is marketing for sure, but Ovankgol generally is considered an upgrade over Sapele in the same way that EIR is considered an upgrade over Mahogany and is priced accordingly.

The Fall LTD series will often show that without the ridiculous inlays on the 800 and 900 series Rosewood can be cheaper than Mahogany.

The original question, before the OP edited it, was whether white 'fibre' was more expensive than black plastic, hence the surcharge on the 400 series. The BTO sheet link I posted shows that the white 'fibre' is in fact white plastic, the same material as the black plastic on the 300 series. If they put white plastic on the 300 series and black plastic on the 400 series, the price is not going to change. If they made Sapele the 400 series and Ovangkol the 300 series the Sapele would be more expensive than Ovangkol. Marketing.