Tormented over choice

[dknelson]

Hello folks.  My name is Don and I live in Ohio.  I've been playing off and on for about 45 years but am still very much a beginner.  I know that this is a Taylor forum and I naturally expect some bias here toward Taylor guitars but I'm hoping that some of you will have compared the two guitars that I am looking at and can share your thoughts on them.  I have read a lot of posts here about the Taylor but have not seen the comparison that I am looking for.

I sold two guitars last week with the intention of replacing both of them with one nice acoustic electric.  I sold a Taylor Solidbody Standard and a Seagull Artist Cameo.  I liked both of those guitars but the electric was just something that I bought about a year ago because I have never really played an electric and wanted to mess with it for a while.  It was fun but not really my thing.  I have owned 4 Seagulls.  Two S6 cutaways with Quantum II electronics.  Cherry back and sides with cedar tops.  I actually enjoyed both of those.  I also owned a 12 string Seagull but ended up not playing it much.  I then ran across a fantastic deal on a Seagull Artist Cameo and bought it.  It was nice but I was not really a fan of the Maple guitar.  So I sold the electric and cameo.

My intention early in the week was to buy a new Martin.  I had pretty much settled on the DCPA1.  I know that we all have different tastes but I think it is a beautiful guitar.  I am not crazy about too much bling and the DCPA1 was just right for me.  The problem turned out being that I had a HARD time finding one to actually hold and play.  I travel in business and during my travels last week, I visited about 8 different music stores that sell Martin and only found ONE store that had it in stock.  That store was Elderly's in Lansing, MI.  I was in Flint for the night and called to see if they had any.  I was told that they had two in stock.  So I made a mad run over to Lansing.  They had one hanging on the wall and said that they had another in the box in the back.  Well, the one hanging on the wall was pretty good.  I just wasn't 100% sold on the top.  I know that I am probably too picky but I am determined that if I spend close to $3,000.00 on a guitar that it is going to look the way I want it to.  I like a top that is consistent top and bottom.  I don't like tops that are darker or lighter on the top half than the bottom half.  I also like any grains and etc. to be fairly the same top and bottom.  This one had a wide, maybe 3" wide, yellow band running the length of the top on the bottom.  Light but very noticeable.  They brought the one out of the back and it turns out that it was actually a return.  The top looked nice but it had a ton of buckle rash on the back and a couple of other very small scratches.

After tormenting over it, I finally bought the one on the wall.  Took it to my hotel that night.  Played it a bit.  I loved the deep bass that comes out of that Martin but after trying to tell myself all night that I could live with the top, I woke up the next morning and made the decision that I just wasn''t going to settle, I took it back and continued my search.

When I got back home on Friday, I started my search again.  Nobody nearby had the DXPA1 in stock.  I ended up driving to Guitar Center and they showed ONE in the warehouse and said that they if I bought it and then didn't like it that they would take it back.  I was at the register just getting ready to do the deal when I decided to take another look.

They had a beautiful Taylor 814ce in stock.  The top is beautiful, the back is very nicely matched with beautiful grain.  The action is actually much more to my liking that either of the Martins that i had tried.  I like a lower action and the Taylors, out of of the box, are just fantastic for me.  The Martin would certainly require a setup to hopefully get it close to what I like.

Both guitars have wood binding which I like.  The binding looks similar but the Taylor of course is Curly Maple and the Martin uses Ovangkol.  A plus for the Martin is that for a guitar that is the same price as the 814ce, it comes with a bone nut and saddle. 

The Martin did, I think, I stronger bass but a lot of that is probably the fact that is is a dreadnaught and has the bone nut.  Now there is a G model of the Martin and I considered it too but I THOUGHT I wanted a dread and to be honest, what I don't like about the  Martin G model is that due to the location of their electronics, it is very visible through the sound hole on the G series and looks awful in my opinion.

So, I ended up buying the 814ce yesterday and played it a bit last night.  We had company from out of town and I wasn't able to spend a lot of time with the guitar but I got a little playing in.

So, I know that we all have drastically differing opinions on the perfect guitar and that it is different for each person but I'm curious if any of you have compared these two models and what your thoughts are.  One thing that I have concluded is that the Martin is a beautiful guitar IF you find the right one.  From all that I've seen so far, Taylor quality control is much better than Martin's.  I would feel much more comfortable if I had to order a Taylor sight unseen that I would ordering a Martin. 

I'm still driving myself crazy trying to decide whether or not to keep this 814ce or take a chance and order the DCPA1.  For me, this is a lot of money for a guitar and I really want to get it right.

[jjrpilot-admin]

Hi Don!  Glad to have you here! 

Thanks for sharing your story.  You definitely know what you want in a guitar...that's a good thing. I can't speak for that certain Martin model etc but you mentioned that the Martin had more bass etc. Martins in general have a "darker" sound than Taylors. Have you tried any Taylor dreads?  Maybe try the GS line?  Both the Taylor dreads and GS models will have significantly more bass than the 814...keeping in mind that the wood combinations are the same etc.

Don't feel guilty if you end up with the Martin.  We all love our Taylors but more importantly we love music. Music trumps all.

Once again, it's great to have you here! 

[cigarfan]

Hey there Don. Welcome to UTGF! It's a great place. Hope you visit often.

You have definitely centered on a couple really nice guitars. And you have nailed the sound differences in a Martin stuff right on the head. I tried 6 different Martin 000-28s before I found one that did it for me. I am lucky I live in the Washington D.C area and have quite a few places to choose from when it comes to available inventory.

My bottom line up front ... IMO the Taylor has the edge and here is why I say that.

Given allot of details on both are the same (tonewoods, scale length, etc.) two things are standout for me. The Expression System in the Taylor is heads above. I'm not knocking the Fishman Aura ... just saying IMHO the ES is better. Second is the bracing. The Taylor CV bracing with relief rout makes a huge difference. I have this in a GA model and compared to my older GA it really makes a big difference.

Hope the feeling of "did I get it right" wears off soon. Personally, I think you got the right guitar in your hands right now.

Hope that helps ... dennis

[egkor]

There is no universal "right", only what is "right for you".

IMHO you should play them both side by side. Also for $3000 you should explore other brands too.

I would include phone calls to past/present forum sponsor dealers (LA Guitar, Guitar Rodeo) and ask these same questions. They are good w/ advice, pricing, and customer satisfaction.

I would look on the Taylor web site (or ask a Taylor dealer) if/when a Road Show or Find Your Fit is coming to your area, and attend that.

For me, for all the reasons above (and more) I love Taylor as a company and for their products.

Back to you, even within Taylors you should really discern if the 814ce is "the" one, there are lots of models/woods etc for different players and styles.

Ultimately the "right" guitar is the one you can't put down, the one that inspires you to play and brings you joy (I got that advice from the Guitar Rodeo web site BTW ...  works for me!).

-Gary K

[Go Navy]

Don, I researched the heck out of Taylors before ordering mine.....which is an 812ce with a special order western red cedar top.  Should be here this coming Tuesday! 

I assume you've read some of Taylor's very good material on the characteristics of different body and top woods.  If not, here's the link to get you started:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/woods/body-woods/indian-rosewood

I've found that info to be very valid based on playing various Taylors in stores.

I personally went with Taylor because of (in no particular order), the feel of the action, the electronics, reputation for quality, beauty, and in my case I wanted a smaller, more playable size since I come from a jazz background and the 812 or Grand Concert series is the ticket for me.  I'll be playing amplified most of the time.  Dreadnought bodies are just to much bulk for me even though I have long arms.....I just like more compact dimensions.

You've definitely narrowed things down a lot, so your decision will be a good one.

[Fire]

Consider an 816ce (GS body) and you won't be tormented anymore.  And if you're not a big fan of adornments, try the 416ce Fall Limited Rosewoods and save half of what you paid or will pay for the 814ce or DCPA1.

PS.

I've A/B tested the Taylor 416ce-LTD against a DCPA1 and GPCPA1. To my ears, the Taylor has a more "Martinesque" low-end than the Martins. Playability-wise.. no comparison. Taylor all the way.... but that's just my opinion.

 

[michaelw]

hi Don,
good to see you here
WELCOME !thank you for sharing a bit about yourself & your experiences in your guitar journey

from what i can gather so far, it sounds like you were happy with the S6 cutaways & i was
wondering if perhaps you may have possibly considered this guitar - all solid cedar/mahogany
http://www.normanguitars.com/st40cwgt4t.html

regarding the martins, it looks one of the DCPA1 was 'used' (buckle-rash') & the other
one, that was purchased & returned, seemed to have some 'run-out' in the top -
it sounds like you liked the bass response & that it has a bone nut &
saddle, but i was wondering how you felt about the rest of the guitar

the projection of the mids, the definition & clarity of the trebles, the balance &
responsiveness overall, the playability, not just the action, but the neck profile &
overall comfort of the guitar, the electronics (F1 aura) & the craftsmanship, etc

the 814ce seems to have better playability, possibly due a combination of
the action/neck relief, neck carve, light gauge Elixir NanoWeb 80/20s &
it sounds like you preferred the aesthetics of the woods (top & back) ...
just wondering how the 814ce sounds to you & which guitar you prefer tonally

seeing that the the position of the electronics in the GPCPA1 is a 'deal-breaker',
comparing a dreadnought to a grand auditorium would be a little 'one-sided', imho -
comparing a 810ce or a 816ce would be a more fair 'fight', but Taylor & martin
are 'completely different animals', especially in terms of tone & build process

i've had several martins, but i've yet to find a standard series model that
'trips my trigger' & the one that stayed with me is a 98 SWD, sitka/cherry &
interestingly enough, the cherry used on it most likely came from seagull

i played a new gibson hummingbird a few years ago, that in all honestly i should
have bought, but as good as it sounded & played, i just couldn't see put that kind
of investment into it at the time (BTO GSc adi top/bracing kind of $, but i digress)

if the guitar you have makes you want to pick it up & play it, that is
'the right one' for you, imho, no matter what it's made of, who makes it,
how it's made or where it's made ... for the time being, that guitar is 'it'

looking forward to hearing more from you -
good luck on your guitar decision, i hope you enjoy
the place & please make yourself comfortable

[dknelson]

Thanks for the replies folks.  I left a lot of details out of my first post because I knew that it was already too long.  I have looked at other models of both brands though.  One that I actually liked was the 514ce with the cedar top.  I liked my cedar topped Seagulls but after doing all the comparisons, I just decided that I wanted the spruce top.  I actually have an old Ephiphone that I bought in 1971.  It is a rosewood with spruce top.  I had the neck reset and frets dressed about a year ago by a good local luthier and it is still a beautiful and great playing guitar.  I have a son in  Texas though and wanted him to have it so I shipped it to him a few weeks ago.

So, I have actually looked at a lot of guitars but I just posted about the two that I had narrowed it down to.  The 914 has way too much bling for my personal taste.  The 414, not quite enough.  The 814 and the DCPA1 have just about the perfect adornments for me.    I've always owned dreads but I kind of like the G series of the 814ce.  The reason I was looking at the DCPA1 instead of the GPCA1 is because I really hate that Martin mounts the electronics on the G series to that is is sort of in your face when you look at the guitar. 

I've been playing the 814ce a good bit this morning and at this point, I am about 90% sure that this is the one for me.  The playability is amazing and the craftsmanship is excellent. 

Your comments are helping.  Thanks much.

[e8n]

I looked at a DCPA1 a while back.  I was trying to open up to everything, not just Taylors in my search and everything I read online about it said that it was an awesome guitar.  I found one here in town and sat with it for about a half hour.  It just wasn't my thing.  I like Taylor's brightness (across the line) and the Martin's just don't have that same sound.  They are really nice guitars but I need a bit more zing is the bottom line.

The one thing I would say however after reading your posts.  You need to commit to the guitar.  If you go into it with the thought that you will return it, it will never stick.  I did that same thing when I was looking for my first "real" guitar.  I bought a couple at GC because of their return policy.  Knowing that I could always return it made it really difficult to love.  I just looked over and over for the flaws and didn't think about the things that made me buy it in the first place.  I ended up with a 710ce eventually (from a place without a return policy).  I had that guitar for about 4 years and it helped me figure out exactly what I wanted in my next guitar.  I haven't had the thought or problem since.  If I have any doubt I won't buy the guitar in the first place.  It takes longer that way but once you have it you never look back.

-Dave

[Go Navy]

So, I have actually looked at a lot of guitars but I just posted about the two that I had narrowed it down to.  The 914 has way too much bling for my personal taste.  The 414, not quite enough.  The 814 and the DCPA1 have just about the perfect adornments for me.     



Your comments are helping.  Thanks much.

Exactly how I felt about the 800 series Taylors. I figured that since I'm spending a bit of money, the aesthetics have to please me or it is a "no-go".  I like the looks of the maple bodied Taylors but they're a little too bright sounding for me.  I don't care for the sunburst finishes on the 700 series but again that's personal taste.  The 900 series are beautiful but as you say, a little too much bling for my tastes.

[bo1142]

I've owned several Martin's over the years, and I always find myself going back to Taylors.  In my opinion, and I stress that, the 814ce is Taylors best all around guitar.  It seems like it handles everything well.  Maple is by far my favorite tonewood, but when playing in a group, I usually pull out my 814ce.  I hope you find what you are looking for, I know I have

Also, thanks for joining.  We need more people who aren't scared to say the name Martin around here

[DennisG]

Also, thanks for joining.  We need more people who aren't scared to say the name Martin around here

I've never once gotten the sense that it's not okay to talk about other guitar brands, especially since many of us own brands in addition to Taylor.

[dknelson]

Well, my wife gave some advice too.  She told me to stop stressing over it and just enjoy what i have.    The decision is pretty much made.  I do like the Taylor neck.  It feels very similar to the neck on the Taylor Solidbody that I just sold.  Easy transition.    The Seagull had a wider neck.  I have fairly big hands so it didn't bother me but the Taylor actually feels a lot better to me. 

I also think that I got a fair deal on it.  Not spectacular at any means but a few hundred cheaper than the $XXXX.00 that everybody has them advertised for.  Due to the fact that I bought it in town, I had to pay the taxes on it but even at that, I ended up paying $XXXX.00 out the door.  I am OK with that.

I think that it is good for the style playing that I do.  Like I said, I'm very much an amateur but the music that I enjoy and try to sort of play is along the lines of James Taylor, Neil Young, Dob Dylan...a little Willie Nelson and Randy Travis thrown in for good measure.  Mostly light strumming and some flat picking.




edited for price

[mgap]

Good choice Don.  I love my 814ce, and yes I like it better than my Martin M-36(and it is a very good guitar).

[bo1142]

Also, thanks for joining.  We need more people who aren't scared to say the name Martin around here

I've never once gotten the sense that it's not okay to talk about other guitar brands, especially since many of us own brands in addition to Taylor.

It was a joke, hence the emoticon at the end