When Is Next Friends and Family Sale?

[Go Navy]

Does Taylor put that date up on its website? Is there only one per year?

[jalbert]

In years past, to my knowledge they were not announced on the web site. It was either by private invitation (before 2009 or so) or announced on social media (Facebook) or even in the local Reader. In my experience they have only ever been held within the first couple of weeks in December. Remember, this is a "Friends & Family" sale; Taylor's not going to go into business against their own dealers. These are demonstrators, overstocks, prototypes, etc.

[Greenheart]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy. They had several dozen R Taylors at flat prices, all below wholesale. I stayed the weekend in SD so on my way back to LA on Monday I stopped by several local stores, after learning I was at the F&F sale one Taylor dealer told me he was very disappointed that Taylor would do this right at the time of his holiday sales. He said Taylor advertised in the local newspapers and had flyers everywhere so it was indeed a public event and many of his customers told him point blank they are saving their cash for the Taylor sale. (I don't want Taylor to retaliate against this dealer so I will not name him) When I told him about the R Taylor prices he looked devastated.

I don't know how Taylor managed the F&F sales in years past but IMHO Taylor did "go in to business against their dealers" with this last one. My guess is the opinion of the one dealer is not unique, and even dealers located far from the SD were upset over this.

And no, I didn't buy anything. I was interested in a couple of the R Taylors but people were grabbing them two and three at a time. Actually the whole scene was a turnoff.

[michaelw]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy. They had several dozen R Taylors at flat prices, all below wholesale. I stayed the weekend in SD so on my way back to LA on Monday I stopped by several local stores, after learning I was at the F&F sale one Taylor dealer told me he was very disappointed that Taylor would do this right at the time of his holiday sales. He said Taylor advertised in the local newspapers and had flyers everywhere so it was indeed a public event and many of his customers told him point blank they are saving their cash for the Taylor sale. (I don't want Taylor to retaliate against this dealer so I will not name him) When I told him about the R Taylor prices he looked devastated.

I don't know how Taylor managed the F&F sales in years past but IMHO Taylor did "go in to business against their dealers" with this last one. My guess is the opinion of the one dealer is not unique, and even dealers located far from the SD were upset over this.

And no, I didn't buy anything. I was interested in a couple of the R Taylors but people were grabbing them two and three at a time. Actually the whole scene was a turnoff.

i'm sorry, but i find it very difficult to see where Taylor did anything 'wrong' -
imho, the 'black Friday' deals had a more significant effect overall

i've been to one & it was very organized & from what i heard about the last one,
there was a limit of 2 guitars, but what's to keep 'friends' from helping each other out 

if i were going to an event like this, i'd have an idea of what i was looking for & i'd ask about it early ...
2nd, 3rd or 4th choice in mind too, not unlike if i was going to go to an auto dealership when
they were offering rebates, incentives & low interest rates because people go there to buy

in that case, i'd have color & options figured out (what i really wanted & what i would 'accept') -
sonic blue metallic base model with a charcoal interior or silver metallic/gray interior with
optional 'appearance' package, as it's low $ & the decals come right off, just like a pickguard

ymmv

[DennisG]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy. They had several dozen R Taylors at flat prices, all below wholesale. I stayed the weekend in SD so on my way back to LA on Monday I stopped by several local stores, after learning I was at the F&F sale one Taylor dealer told me he was very disappointed that Taylor would do this right at the time of his holiday sales. He said Taylor advertised in the local newspapers and had flyers everywhere so it was indeed a public event and many of his customers told him point blank they are saving their cash for the Taylor sale. (I don't want Taylor to retaliate against this dealer so I will not name him) When I told him about the R Taylor prices he looked devastated.

I don't know how Taylor managed the F&F sales in years past but IMHO Taylor did "go in to business against their dealers" with this last one. My guess is the opinion of the one dealer is not unique, and even dealers located far from the SD were upset over this.

And no, I didn't buy anything. I was interested in a couple of the R Taylors but people were grabbing them two and three at a time. Actually the whole scene was a turnoff.

i'm sorry, but i find it very difficult to see where Taylor did anything 'wrong' -
imho, the 'black Friday' deals had a more significant effect overall

How are you -- or any of us -- in a position to know which event had a more significant financial impact on dealers in the San Diego area?  If a dealer told me that he believes the F&F sale pulls business away from him -- an assertion that sounds credible to me -- I'd tend to believe him.  And even if it's true that Black Friday sucked away more sales than the F&F sale, that doesn't mean dealers weren't impacted by F&F.  So, really, why should dealers feel anything other than annoyance that a major manufacturer is selling items similar to those in the guitar shops for far less money?

[michaelw]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy. They had several dozen R Taylors at flat prices, all below wholesale. I stayed the weekend in SD so on my way back to LA on Monday I stopped by several local stores, after learning I was at the F&F sale one Taylor dealer told me he was very disappointed that Taylor would do this right at the time of his holiday sales. He said Taylor advertised in the local newspapers and had flyers everywhere so it was indeed a public event and many of his customers told him point blank they are saving their cash for the Taylor sale. (I don't want Taylor to retaliate against this dealer so I will not name him) When I told him about the R Taylor prices he looked devastated.

I don't know how Taylor managed the F&F sales in years past but IMHO Taylor did "go in to business against their dealers" with this last one. My guess is the opinion of the one dealer is not unique, and even dealers located far from the SD were upset over this.

And no, I didn't buy anything. I was interested in a couple of the R Taylors but people were grabbing them two and three at a time. Actually the whole scene was a turnoff.

i'm sorry, but i find it very difficult to see where Taylor did anything 'wrong' -
imho, the 'black Friday' deals had a more significant effect overall

How are you -- or any of us -- in a position to know which event had a more significant financial impact on dealers in the San Diego area?  If a dealer told me that he believes the F&F sale pulls business away from him -- an assertion that sounds credible to me -- I'd tend to believe him.  And even if it's true that Black Friday sucked away more sales than the F&F sale, that doesn't mean dealers weren't impacted by F&F.  So, really, why should dealers feel anything other than annoyance that a major manufacturer is selling items similar to those in the guitar shops for far less money?

imho, Taylor builds the guitars & provides them to their dealers to sell,
along with their events, customer service & support (the whole enchilada) -
if the dealer has a concern regarding a matter such as this, they should
contact the person(s) that are in a position to address their concern

i'm not saying that the event didn't have an effect, but i believe that
there were a greater number of guitars sold a few weeks prior over a
greater area than at F & F, as the event guitars were not on a website &
they were not shipped to the customer, it was a local 'cash 'n carry' -
dealers were not put in a position to where they had to 'price-match'
in order to be competitive (as it most likely was with 'black Friday')
because the event happened 'that quick' & then it was over, whereas
more dealers probably felt the effects over a greater area for a longer
period of time before the event took place ... what i find interesting is
that i don't believe i've heard one 'complain' about a 'black Friday' deal

i feel that Taylor has been & is going to continue to do what is
best for their company as whole, whether one agrees or disagrees,
each one has the choice to vote with their wallet or pocket book ...
i imagine that the number of people that were happy at the event
far outweighed those that were not (sure, i wish i could've gone)

unfortunately, situations like this happen (things seem to get sold
out from under people) & during the holiday season it is more common

i can see where adding 2, or 4, words may  change the way something could  be perceived -
i could have put 'may have' between 'deals' & 'had', but it's just an opinion, take it or leave it

life goes on ...

[DennisG]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy. They had several dozen R Taylors at flat prices, all below wholesale. I stayed the weekend in SD so on my way back to LA on Monday I stopped by several local stores, after learning I was at the F&F sale one Taylor dealer told me he was very disappointed that Taylor would do this right at the time of his holiday sales. He said Taylor advertised in the local newspapers and had flyers everywhere so it was indeed a public event and many of his customers told him point blank they are saving their cash for the Taylor sale. (I don't want Taylor to retaliate against this dealer so I will not name him) When I told him about the R Taylor prices he looked devastated.

I don't know how Taylor managed the F&F sales in years past but IMHO Taylor did "go in to business against their dealers" with this last one. My guess is the opinion of the one dealer is not unique, and even dealers located far from the SD were upset over this.

And no, I didn't buy anything. I was interested in a couple of the R Taylors but people were grabbing them two and three at a time. Actually the whole scene was a turnoff.

i'm sorry, but i find it very difficult to see where Taylor did anything 'wrong' -
imho, the 'black Friday' deals had a more significant effect overall

How are you -- or any of us -- in a position to know which event had a more significant financial impact on dealers in the San Diego area?  If a dealer told me that he believes the F&F sale pulls business away from him -- an assertion that sounds credible to me -- I'd tend to believe him.  And even if it's true that Black Friday sucked away more sales than the F&F sale, that doesn't mean dealers weren't impacted by F&F.  So, really, why should dealers feel anything other than annoyance that a major manufacturer is selling items similar to those in the guitar shops for far less money?

i

i imagine that the number of people that were happy at the event
far outweighed those that were not

Well, of course.  But is that what defines a successful business strategy?  The fact is, the things that please customers aren't necessarily the same things that are going to please dealers.  By your logic, Bob Taylor could leave a thousands guitars on his front porch with a "Free -- Take One" sign on the pile, and as long as more people are pleased by it than displeased, that would seem to justify it.

Yes, Taylor is going to do whatever they believe to be in the best interest of their company.  But the F&F sale is a short-term tactic to get rid of a bunch of guitars Taylor can't sell as new.  If, in the long term, doing so ticks off some of their dealers, I would assert that it's not in the best interest of Taylor to be engaging in that practice.

Michael, all I'm saying is that I feel for the local dealers who, in a down economy, are affected by what is likely to be a loss of sales to one degree or another.

[jalbert]

I was at this last F&F sale and I didn't see any guitars my local dealer would not be happy to buy.

Agreed. However, demonstrators usually have some shop-wear which is a big turn-off to retail buyers. Prototypes? Those can take a real hit in resale value. Overstocks? The dealers weren't buying them in the first place. So while some dealers would be happy to buy these guitars for retail sale (though I hope not to sell at regular retail prices), I can also see why Taylor just opened the doors like this.

Now what puzzles me is the public nature of it all. Pre-2009, you had know know someone and have an invitation. It strikes me as odd that (at least for the last two sales) you could show up with cash in hand and take home who-knows-what.

I suppose I should disclaim that I was one of the folks hovering around the closeout R. Taylors and did purchase one. I also picked up a SolidBody. If there is another sale and I have some spending money, I'll enjoy seeing what's available. And enjoy some street tacos!

[Steve]

James has pretty much nailed it.

Protos, demonstrators, artist loaners, and overstocks; those are the guitars that sell at Friends & Family.

What's the impact on local dealers? Well, they'll say that the F&F Sale is just about the end of the world. Having been a San Diego dealer, though, I can tell you that the impact is actually pretty minimal. There wasn't a F&F Sale in 2010, and I don't recall any San Diego area dealers talking about how much stronger their Taylor sales were because of that.

Are guitars sold below normal dealer pricing? Yeah, many are. But if someone pays "X" amount at F&F for an 814ce, they probably wouldn't be going into a local dealer and paying the "Y" street price for an 814ce, simply because the price a local retailer is going to sell it for is just too high.

Friends & Family happens, at the most, once a year; normally the second Saturday in December. If retailers, who stock guitars year round, have a problem competing with that, they really need to find another line of work...

[Steve]

How are you -- or any of us -- in a position to know which event had a more significant financial impact on dealers in the San Diego area?  If a dealer told me that he believes the F&F sale pulls business away from him -- an assertion that sounds credible to me -- I'd tend to believe him. 

It may sound credible, but it's not...

[egkor]

I assume that to take advantage of this "F&F" sale you either live by the Taylor HQ/factory, or know in advance when to show up there w/ checkbook?

And wow, who would you have to be "friends" with, BT himself?  1/2

-Gary K

[Steve]

I assume that to take advantage of this "F&F" sale you either live by the Taylor HQ/factory, or know in advance when to show up there w/ checkbook?

Well, as has already been mentioned, the 2011 sale was announced on Facebook, as well as in some local publications. You're correct, you have to be in El Cajon to go shopping, or have someone in El Cajon acting on your behalf. Forget about buying something over the phone; it ain't happenin'...

And wow, who would you have to be "friends" with, BT himself?  1/2

In the past, it was with anyone who worked there. Last year, as it was announced locally and on FB, knowing someone at the factory wasn't actually necessary...

[Go Navy]

In years past, to my knowledge they were not announced on the web site. It was either by private invitation (before 2009 or so) or announced on social media (Facebook) or even in the local Reader. In my experience they have only ever been held within the first couple of weeks in December. Remember, this is a "Friends & Family" sale; Taylor's not going to go into business against their own dealers. These are demonstrators, overstocks, prototypes, etc.

What is a "local Reader"?

[michaelw]

What is a "local Reader"?

i think it's a free periodical that has music &
other event information, local goings on, etc
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/

[jalbert]

michaelw is correct about the Reader.