Author Topic: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol  (Read 15501 times)

Jannie

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Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« on: February 15, 2012, 10:38:37 PM »
Just wondering, I get the impression 12 fret guitars are becoming more popular; I have a GC3 but really love playing 12 fret instruments and wondering if Taylor might make a 12 Fret version of the GC3 and GC4?

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 11:44:46 PM »
Everyone keeps talking about the 12 fret-ters....I need to go try one out...

That's a good question...I'm not sure....I guess currently they're only offering them in Spruce/EIR and Hog...
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michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 12:07:16 AM »
Everyone keeps talking about the 12 fret-ters....I need to go try one out...

That's a good question...I'm not sure....I guess currently they're only offering them in Spruce/EIR and Hog...
as regular production 'specialty' models they are, but BTO options are pretty much 'wide-open' ;)
here's a 12 fret 'hog on that has the spruce top finished to match the back & sides
http://davesguitar.com/products/taylor/12-fret-mahogany-2012-version/
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Jannie

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 10:24:42 AM »
My hope it to bring down the cost much like it was with my GC3, there is no way I can afford the current 12 fret offers or a custom. I'd only played nylon strung guitars since my youth and the 12 fret just seems right, seems to have a lot more volume playing with fingers too.

jpmist

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 10:27:05 AM »
Just wondering, I get the impression 12 fret guitars are becoming more popular; I have a GC3 but really love playing 12 fret instruments and wondering if Taylor might make a 12 Fret version of the GC3 and GC4?

You might consider a Larrivee. They make special runs of their OO-03 model every so often. They'll be 12 frets with satin mahogany/spruce finishes and pop up at LA Guitar and eBay now and then. The price point will be lower than a GC3, but they're nice guitars.

Nice to read they're getting popular. I love the tone of mine. You get a bit extra volume, midrange and bass and the Taylor treble is smoothed out nicely.
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ataylor

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 10:44:32 AM »
I'd sure be a fan of a 12-fret GC3/4. They'd probably be a little more expensive than a standard GC3/4 but still significantly cheaper than the all-gloss specialty series models.
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ctkarslake

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 12:39:13 PM »
I don't understand why a 12 fret would be more expensive to make.  Is there something I'm missing?  I talking about say a GC4-14 fret vs. GC4-12 fret.  Is there something inherent in construction that leads people to think it has to be more $?

Regardless, bring them on Taylor! (fingers crossed)
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ataylor

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 12:50:22 PM »
I don't understand why a 12 fret would be more expensive to make.  Is there something I'm missing?  I talking about say a GC4-14 fret vs. GC4-12 fret.  Is there something inherent in construction that leads people to think it has to be more $?

Regardless, bring them on Taylor! (fingers crossed)

I think the slotted headstock is a little more expensive. I know it's an upcharge on the BTO sheet. Other than that it shouldn't be different, especially given Taylor's process in building the guitars.

In any case, I agree -- let's see a working man's 12-fret in the lineup! :)
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michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 01:39:56 PM »
in the short term, i think it'd be cool to see a GC3/4 12 fret
offered as a LTD model, along with GS3/4 6 & 12 string models :D

when Taylor introduced the GA in 94 as a 20th anniversary XX model &
then the GA-XX series in 95 (MC, RS, WS, KC, KS & BE),  it was 2 years
later (97) that the 414/414ce were released (6 years after the 400 series)
& then in 98, the 300 series (sapele) came along & the 400s became ovangkol

the GS was released in 06 (MC, MS, RC & RS), which became a standard series in 07
( 5, 6, 7 & 8 ), with the GS4eLTD tas blackwood also offered that year, the X16ce
series in 08, the 416ce last year & the 316/356 & 456ce this year, it has taken
6 years for the GS to be completely phased into the standard acoustic electric series

the GA3/4-12 remains in the acoustic, now non-cutaway, series & i imagine that it's
possible the GS3/4 & GS 3/4-12 could  be added next (maybe in the near future ??? ) &
if the 12 fret was integrated into the standard acoustic electric line (500-900), then at
that point there might  be the possibility of a 312/412ce 12 frets & then the GC3/4s

there's always a chance & i wouldn't count Taylor out on anything :)
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Tammany Tiger

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 05:22:20 PM »
I am replying to several points raised in this thread.

Taylor will build a BTO 12 fret in either a GC or GA shape. The standard wood combinations are available on this sort of project, including sapele and ovankol back and sides. There is no up-charge for either of these materials.

Taylor uses a 12 fret specific BTO build sheet with slightly different pricing and options than on other BTOs. Overall, 12 frets are either the same price or slightly less expensive than other BTOs. See next paragraph. 

Slothead tuners are not an extra charge for 12 frets as they are on the regular BTO sheet. A 12 fret can be built with either a standard peghead or a slothead for the same price. 

A non-cutaway ovankol or sapele guitar would be one of the least expensive BTOs. If you are careful on the other appointments, you can have one built for about the same price as a stock acoustic Taylor. The only downside is the wait and the inability to preview the guitar before taking the plunge.

There is a recent thread on these pages (with links to pictures) discussing an absolutely gorgeous ovankol BTO. Look here: http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=1025.0
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:35:52 PM by Tammany Tiger »

Tammany Tiger

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 05:48:32 PM »
Everyone keeps talking about the 12 fret-ters....I need to go try one out...

It's an interesting point, Josh.

I have been drawn to 12 fret GCs because the bridge placement fundamentally changes the guitar's tone into a more traditional sound. All of the buzz surrounding Taylor 12 frets suggests to me that for as much as we love Taylors there is a desire for a different sound within the brand.

I don't think anyone is saying that Taylor should deep six the tone that has become its hallmark. Nevertheless, Taylor loyalists seem to  welcome the tonal variety and flexibility that these guitars provide from a builder whom we already love.

The 12 fret mahogany that I ordered has sort of a traditional Gibson L 00 sound but with more volume and complexity because the highs are better than on small body Gibsons. I could have spent the next year or so auditioning a bunch of uneven sounding Gibsons and then picking out the best sounding guitar with pretty spare appointments. On the other hand, the Taylor 12 fret BTO gives me a very traditional tone with superior appointments within a brand that I already know and love. And I say this as someone who loves traditional Gibson tone.

Listen to what Bryan Rankins has to say about the 12 fret GC tone here: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=taylor+12+fret+fazio&view=detail&mid=AAAE9FD7E1012F511834AAAE9FD7E1012F511834&first=0&FORM=LKVR


« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 06:02:11 PM by Tammany Tiger »

ataylor

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 07:06:57 PM »

I have been drawn to 12 fret GCs because the bridge placement fundamentally changes the guitar's tone into a more traditional sound. All of the buzz surrounding Taylor 12 frets suggests to me that for as much as we love Taylors there is a desire for a different sound within the brand.

I don't think anyone is saying that Taylor should deep six the tone that has become its hallmark. Nevertheless, Taylor loyalists seem to welcome the tonal variety and flexibility that these guitars provide from a builder whom we already love.

I could have spent the next year or so auditioning a bunch of uneven sounding Gibsons and then picking out the best sounding guitar with pretty spare appointments. On the other hand, the Taylor 12 fret BTO gives me a very traditional tone with superior appointments within a brand that I already know and love. And I say this as someone who loves traditional Gibson tone.


I think you just nailed what I keep hoping Taylor will do with their guitar lines. Taylor could really tap into the market for traditional tone by offering it alongside their trademark fit, finish, and consistency. Obviously the acoustic/electric market is their bread and butter. That said, I would love to see the "acoustic" series transformed into a "traditional" series that is very much built along the same lines as the 12-fret. This gives more contrast to the two series lines and could be a great way for Taylors to end up in the hands of players who are currently choosing other brands, whether that's traditional powers like Martin and Gibson or smaller shops like Collings and Santa Cruz. I think Taylor is in a unique position where they can go up against both groups.

Alongside the 12-fret GC and GA could be a 12-fret dreadnought, and/or a deep-body 14-fret dreadnought. Taylor could even bring the parlor model into this series and maybe that new jumbo design they hinted at in W&S. I think they could really fill a niche and a need for a warmer Taylor sound that the 12-fret has teased us with. I think the 700 series is kind of a step in this direction as well -- I just think those type of appointments would be more appropriate on a traditional line rather than cutaway models with built-in electronics.

This isn't to say Taylor should try and enter the boutique market by making meticulous replicas of timeless classics. But I do think a more traditional/vintage approach in terms of tone and aesthetics to Taylor's design, quality, and consistency would be a success and a breath of fresh air.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 07:08:31 PM by ataylor »
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michaelw

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 07:18:50 PM »
it seems to me that with the CV bracing pattern on the 14 fret models,
that there was a desire to tap into a bit more 'richness' in overall tone -
i'm curious to see if adi bracing trickles down to the 12 frets as well,
or it was determined that sitka bracing was best for the desired results ???

anxiously awaiting for the next phase of 'revoicing' to begin, especially with
with the abilities that Andy Powers brings to the table ... this should be great :D
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Tammany Tiger

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 05:08:32 PM »
it seems to me that with the CV bracing pattern on the 14 fret models,
that there was a desire to tap into a bit more 'richness' in overall tone -
i'm curious to see if adi bracing trickles down to the 12 frets as well,
or it was determined that sitka bracing was best for the desired results ???

anxiously awaiting for the next phase of 'revoicing' to begin, especially with
with the abilities that Andy Powers brings to the table ... this should be great :D


One of the most important features is already there. Taylor Customer Service confirmed that 12 frets use a relief cut on their tops. I think that CV per se is impossible because the 12er has an entirely different bridge placement.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 05:11:26 PM by Tammany Tiger »

Steve

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Re: Will they make 12 fret guitars in Sapele and Ovingol
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 05:37:39 PM »
In time I would suspect that you'll see a 12-fret in the 300's and 400's, but I don't think it's right around the corner. Taylor's not exactly having a difficult time selling the higher end ones right now, so there's probably no urgency...
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