Will bone saddle really make a difference?

[Toondog]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and am very much enjoying reading all your posts.
I have a 2005 314ce which I really enjoy playing and I'd love to buy more Taylor guitars, lots more! Unfortunately the unreliability of French cars (the Wife's French car to be precise) means that really isn't an option right now. So I've been looking into "pimping out" my 314 for want of a better word. So just a few questions for you all. I'd be really interested to hear your opinions. Will a bone saddle really make a noticeable difference to the volume/tone of my guitar? Ebony bridge pins? I've always used used D'addario phosphor bronze strings (namely EJ24 true mediums) but switched to light elixir nono's  having read good reviews of them. However I find them a little bit to bright so will be trying the phosphor bronze ones soon. Do elixir do a true medium? Anyway to cut a long story short any advice would be most welcome.
I'm working hard on my fingerstyle at the mo but do love a good strum and like to whack em pretty hard sometimes! I've been playing about twenty years and this is easily the best guitar I've owned (so far!)

Thanks in advance

Chris

[Scriptor]

A bone saddle will make a difference but no guarantee you will like it better ... the good news is a bone saddle is not an expensive item to try ... reverting back to the original saddle is easy should you not care for the change ... my experience with bone saddle upgrades has been all the way from "significant improvement" to "not much noticeable change" to "negative results, back to TUSQ" ...

Bottom line:  worth a try but don't be shocked if you go back to TUSQ.

[cigarfan]

A bone saddle will make a difference but no guarantee you will like it better ... the good news is a bone saddle is not an expensive item to try ... reverting back to the original saddle is easy should you not care for the change ... my experience with bone saddle upgrades has been all the way from "significant improvement" to "not much noticeable change" to "negative results, back to TUSQ" ...

Bottom line:  worth a try but don't be shocked if you go back to TUSQ.

TUSQ ??

[sachi]

TUSQ ??

Tusq is the stock saddle on the 314. It's a hard plastic, sort of similar to a corian.

Toondog, I replaced the saddle in my GC with a bone saddle from Bob Colosi. It added a bit of warmth to the tone, and increased the clarity of the guitar. However, strings will make a bigger difference. If you have Elixir 80-20s on there now, it's no wonder you're looking for more bass. I thought those were awful strings. I use D'Addario PBs on my Taylor and like them, but there are plenty of other options such as Pearse and DR.

[temporaryalias]

As strings go I would suggest trying a set of ghs white bronze or Martinez flex cores. I have found these warm up my 416 quite a bit. The martins have much more of a bass note but come with more shimmer and overtones. That calms down after a day or two. The ghs are my favorites right now. They lasted a long time and sounded very clean. Unused elixirs and liked them for the lack of string squeak. But they are way too bright and shimmery for me.

Can't speak to the bone saddle just yet.  Good luck

[Edward]

Hi Chris,

There is lots of love out there for going to a bone saddle.  And frankly, any change in saddle material will change the tone in this critical area of the guitar ...the burning question, however, is will you like the change?  The key here is try it, be honest and objective about the differences, and stick to what you think is better for your style and taste. 

IMHO, there are simply too many people who simply think "bone is better" and therefore laud that change.  Hogwash.  Only the owner can determine what sounds better.  Moreover, tusq us not an "inferior" material as much as it is a "different" material that offers its own merits, espeically over production guitars.  So the proof is in the pudding.  If you like it, then it is good; if not, simply go the other way.

Edward

[Scriptor]

Moreover, tusq us not an "inferior" material as much as it is a "different" material that offers its own merits, espeically over production guitars. 

+1 ... I think this is what gets lost in the whole "upgrade to bone" scenario ... most consider bone an "upgrade" but in reality it is just different sometimes in a good way and sometimes maybe not ... given the relatively inexpensiveness of a bone saddle (and that it is a DIY project) I have settled into the view that with higher quality Taylor (or other) acoustics I would always give bone a try to see if it makes a positive difference but if not, I am more than happy to revert to the TUSQ. 

My latest bone saddle project was for my 814ce.  This guitar already sounded very good.  However, the Colossi bone saddle definitely brought out some very positive qualities and made it even better to my ears.

[bjasso]

Here has been my experience: a bone saddle USUALLY produces an increase in volume and minimal tone difference. Walrus ivory and mammoth ivory increase volume and tend to color the tone more (in a positive way). This goes for bridge pins as well (the ivory options can get rather expensive). Ebony will USUALLY darken the tone of a guitar -- tame an over-bright or brash sounding treble.
I have switched out saddles and pins on two guitars and heard a noticable positive difference. If you go the bone or mamouth ivory route...switch out both bridge pins and saddle.
Bone, ivory pins and saddles will NOT make a bad guitar sound good.

[redsnapper]

Moreover, tusq us not an "inferior" material as much as it is a "different" material that offers its own merits, espeically over production guitars. 

+1 ... I think this is what gets lost in the whole "upgrade to bone" scenario ... most consider bone an "upgrade" but in reality it is just different sometimes in a good way and sometimes maybe not ... given the relatively inexpensiveness of a bone saddle (and that it is a DIY project) I have settled into the view that with higher quality Taylor (or other) acoustics I would always give bone a try to see if it makes a positive difference but if not, I am more than happy to revert to the TUSQ. 

My latest bone saddle project was for my 814ce.  This guitar already sounded very good.  However, the Colossi bone saddle definitely brought out some very positive qualities and made it even better to my ears.

What do you mean by "very positive qualities" in this context? What does a bone saddle add or take away vs. TUSQ sound wise? What was better to your ears about the sound with the bone saddle? Just curious.

[Scriptor]

What do you mean by "very positive qualities" in this context? What does a bone saddle add or take away vs. TUSQ sound wise? What was better to your ears about the sound with the bone saddle? Just curious.

Here are the qualities that bone brought specifically to the 814ce to my ears:

- improved sustain
- improved clarity
- more depth/warmth

- to a lesser extent, a little more volume

Again, I would not say that bone always "adds or takes away vs. TUSQ" in a postive sense ... I had a 414 once that when I changed to bone saddle the results were negative ... TUSQ was definitely better for that particular guitar ... I had an older 814 once where bone made little perceptable difference ... as was said before, it is in the ear of the owner ...

[dangrunloh]

What do you mean by "very positive qualities" in this context? What does a bone saddle add or take away vs. TUSQ sound wise? What was better to your ears about the sound with the bone saddle? Just curious.

Here are the qualities that bone brought specifically to the 814ce to my ears:

- improved sustain
- improved clarity
- more depth/warmth

- to a lesser extent, a little more volume

Again, I would not say that bone always "adds or takes away vs. TUSQ" in a postive sense ... I had a 414 once that when I changed to bone saddle the results were negative ... TUSQ was definitely better for that particular guitar ... I had an older 814 once where bone made little perceptable difference ... as was said before, it is in the ear of the owner ...

I will soon be trying a bone saddle in my 414.  I agree maybe the first thing to decide is what strings you will be using.  Strings, playing style, personal preference, and the individual guitar will likely influence the result.

I'm switching not to improve the tone but to find out how it will sound with proper snug fitting saddle.  It turns out the slot in my bridge is a little oversize so the stock tusq saddle (I've had two) is a little too loose.  It can rock back and forth a little.  I'm going to order a Colosi bone saddle but request a little extra thickness.   If it tuns out I prefer the Tusq, I can buy an oversize  tusq saddle from Graphtech and sand it to fit.  I believe you can even but Tusq blanks.

On many threads I have read that bone may increase the bass and may reduce some shrillness on top as compared to Tusq.  If I get any more sustain out of this 414 I don't know what I will do with it.

[Toondog]

Thanks everyone. Just what I was after a bit of a debate. I know pretty much which strings I like (D'addario pb true mediums) but I'll still give the elixir pb's a shot before I go back to them. I'm gonna give the bone saddle a shot and change the pins also. Anyone recomend a compensated saddle for 314ce? I should point out I already love the sound of the guitar so I suppose I just want to see if I can make it sound even better!

Thanks again.

[S MS Picker]

What Edward said.
Steve