Self-service advice? - adjusting neck shims on Taylor GA3-12 12-string

[davem1111]

Does anyone here have experience swapping out the shims on a Taylor acoustic neck?   I'm not sure what models they use these on, maybe all.  The one I have seems to need shims adjusted every several years. I'm pretty handy with tools so I'm thinking about doing it myself this time.  Strings are about 1/4" off the neck at the 12th, and the neck doesn't have any curvature to speak of but of course I will be adjusting the truss rod first and letting it sit for a little while. (Still on the fence about paying the shop to do it).  Also, my saddle is quite short, which makes me wonder if the shop even checked that for spec last time they had it.  I'm guessing that it might be a challenge to get shims directly from Taylor also... ?   

[Earl]

Welcome, Dave.  Is this the same shop that did alleged "set-up" work on it last time?  If so, find another shop......  Run, don't walk.  I'm not kidding.

Taylor started using the NT neck and the shims in 1999 or 2000, so your GA-3 certainly falls after that date and has the NT neck.  Only a Taylor authorized tech can get the shims and are trained on which ones to swap out.  If the saddle is too short, a tech who does not understand Taylor NT necks likely sanded it down.  That is NOT the right way to handle action adjustments on Taylor guitars.  Truss rod adjustments serve only to change the relief or curvature of the neck, and are not necessarily there to set the action (string height).  The process is:
1) set neck angle to within Taylor specs using the proper shims at the neck heel and under the fret board extension
2) use the truss rod to set the relief to about 0.007" at the 7th fret while holding down the 1st and 12th fret
3) verify that nut slots are deep enough (fretting at the third fret there should be a tiny 0.001" clearance at the first fret)
4) lower the saddle slightly, usually only to get the last 64th of an inch of string height adjustment

Taylor factory spec is 6/64" (aka 3/32") for the bass E string and 4/64" at the treble e string, when measured between the string and the 12th fret.  There may be slightly different numbers for a 12 string, I would have to look that up.  You say that there is currently no appreciable curvature to the neck, so a truss rod adjustment is probably the last thing needed.

Sanding the saddle is the only option on a glued-in dovetail neck, so non-Taylor techs go there first.  But the beauty of the NT system is that the neck angle can be set to the optimal point, then make very minor adjustments to saddle height and truss rod relief to really dial it in closely.  If you want your personal set up to be lower than the factory specs, that is where a slight lowering of the saddle comes in.  Or a slightly different choice of shims.  Hope this helps.

[SDTaylorman]

I think Earl told you just about everything you need to know there davem1111. If anyone wants more detailed discussion this was actually the topic of "Taylor Primetime" on YouTube with Taylor's Service Network Manager Rob Magargal on June 30, 2020. I think the neck/saddle/setup discussion was at around the 50 something minute mark but it's worth watching the entire thing anyway.

[jpmist]

I tried this once on a 312 I used to have. It's doable and although I didn't try, I've read several times here that you have no chance at getting Taylor to send you any shims unless you're a factory approved tech. The shims are basically precisely machined hardwood, so if you wanna make some yourself, you'll have to make sure the wood's moisture is stable and equally dense as Taylor's.

You can very patiently peel off the label covering the neck bolt and the neck unbolts in seconds. It is really ingenious how Tayor designed the neck join. In the process of removing your neck you'll find that Taylor used a tan colored putty to fill in gaps between the neck and body. It's basically an oil based clay, so you can reuse it.

If you currently have a short saddle, then you need to raise the nut higher. There are two shims, a body shim and a neck shim. To raise the nut means the neck shim needs to be thicker, the body shim thinner. You might get away with simply sanding down the body shim only (what I did) if you don't mind doing something totally irreversible. That will allow you to install a taller saddle. Earl's suggestions are great, but I wonder if it'd be better to set your truss rod for your preferred relief before adjusting the neck angle.

As I've just googled it, I highly recommend Frets.com on this very topic! Great site, great pics. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Data/Guitar/Taylor/99NeckJoint/99joint.html

And also Stew-Mac has neck shims for Fender Electric necks made of maple that you might adapt.

Finally I stumbled on a thread here with a Taylor factory set up chart: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437515

Good luck!

[davem1111]

Wow - thanks for the helpful replies, everyone.    So, to expand a bit on what I said first, I got the guitar used around 2013, so I don't know the history of it, but if they started making this in 1999 or 2000 mine could be as much as 13-14 years old.  That's a lot of time for someone to mess with the neck and saddle.

The guy at the shop where my GF (now wife) bought it for me is the one who worked on it twice, and he explained the shims to me but he didn't say anything about the saddle and I don't know if *he* is the one who sanded it down.  But if I put a stock saddle back in there the neck is going to have to tilt back quite a bit since the strings are already much higher than spec.  I do think this is a quite ingenious design, but I wish it were a bit easier to adjust the neck angle.

I think it was that guy also who told me that the shims were difficult to get so I'm not surprised that I might have a problem.  I have some woodworking tools but I'd rather buy shims than try to make them.  Although I might have little to lose by trying that if I can get my hands on some proper wood to make them.

Great explanation of the whole Taylor setup, Earl.  Thanks!
Definitely going to check out the links, jpmist, and the Stew-Mac shims might be an answer.  I might try some of those on my Squier Strat first.    Obviously I'd have to cut and drill them for the Taylor.
Will look on YouTube also, SDTaylorman.  Everything seems to be on YouTube these days.     

Cheers!  Glad I found this forum!     -Dave