Replacing Tuning Buttons On Taylor Slothead Tuners

[Tammany Tiger]

Does anyone know whether tuning buttons on Taylor slot head tuners can be easily replaced? I am thinking about a 12 fret BTO in darker woods and would like to replace the ivory buttons with Ebony or Snakewood.

Any thoughts?

[solosdad]

Last summer my 814ce fell over and I broke a trebble tuner.  The broken one I noticed had the shaft molded into to the ivoroid button. I do not believe the Taylor Ping slothead tuners have the capability of switching buttons. There are always Waverlys to consider however being new to guitars I do not know if you will have a footprint problem. If you don't Go for the Waverly Sloane model tuners, They are beautiful. I'm sure Taylor customer service or Ted who sells many BTO's can answer your question as to whether other tuners will fit.

[Satsuki]

No, you cannot replace the tuner buttons. You have to replace the tuners with the type you want.

[Tammany Tiger]

Last summer my 814ce fell over and I broke a trebble tuner.  The broken one I noticed had the shaft molded into to the ivoroid button. I do not believe the Taylor Ping slothead tuners have the capability of switching buttons. There are always Waverlys to consider however being new to guitars I do not know if you will have a footprint problem. If you don't Go for the Waverly Sloane model tuners, They are beautiful. I'm sure Taylor customer service or Ted who sells many BTO's can answer your question as to whether other tuners will fit.

Thanks for the reply. I will order the guitar through Jim Tordoff at Guitar Rodeo whom I understand sells more BTOs than anyone on the country. This will be my third BTO with him going back a number of years and I am confident that he will know. I have yet to ask a BTO question that he could not answer.

My post was more directed to finding out whether folks had installed after market tuning buttons of the type available through Stew Mac and some other suppliers. I am a little on the fence about whether to spec a 12 fret. Taylor's Customer Service Department confirmed today 12 frets are only available with slot heads which I generally do not like. When I asked about button options and aftermarket changeout I was told that the dealer would need to ask the Taylor BTO Department directly.

Part of my reason for disliking Taylor's slot heads is cosmetic, part of it is because they do not feel as precise as the Gotoh 510s. I figured that I could at least minimize the cosmetic problem with darker buttons given that woods and finishes that I am considering.

[michaelw]

the 12 fret tuner buttons do not appear to be fastened by a set screw (they look 'press-fit' to me) &
the area of the tuner body that supports the tuner button shaft seems to be enclosed, which would make
removing the shafts very difficult (if  it is possible to do so) to have the buttons removed & new ones installed

here are some Gotohs 15:1 (the black buttons are plastic)
http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproducts.asp?NameProdHeader=Gotoh%99+Steel+String+Slot-Head

Schertlers 18:1 (the tuners may be available in other finishes & the genuiune ebony buttons are replaceable)
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Schertler_Tuning_Machines_for_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar.html

[Tammany Tiger]

the 12 fret tuner buttons do not appear to be fastened by a set screw (they look 'press-fit' to me) &
the area of the tuner body that supports the tuner button shaft seems to be enclosed, which would make
removing the shafts very difficult (if  it is possible to do so) to have the buttons removed & new ones installed

here are some Gotohs 15:1 (the black buttons are plastic)
http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproducts.asp?NameProdHeader=Gotoh%99+Steel+String+Slot-Head

Schertlers 18:1 (the tuners may be available in other finishes & the genuiune ebony buttons are replaceable)
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Schertler_Tuning_Machines_for_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar.html

Thanks, Michael. It has been awhile since I have looked at these tuners and your response is exactly what I was looking for. If there is no screw at the head of the button, I can't imagine that the buttons can be changed.

[michaelw]

the 30th anniversary GC 14 fret short scale slotheads used Waverlys (3 on-plate)
http://www.imagineguitars.com/archive/acoustic/019_taylor_xxx_br/index.html
but those tuners appear to have buttons that are 'pressed-on' as well, unless the tuner
shaft screws go all the way through the shafts & the buttons have threaded inserts

the 12 fret 814ceLTDs that i've seen pics of have individual machines that are
each held down by 2 anchors screws (6 per side), rather than 4 screws on-plate

i am wondering if the reason why the 12 frets have the slotted  headstock, other than aesthetics,
is that possibly by having the tuner posts below the surface of the headstock, it creates a greater
break angle on the strings over the nut or, it could be that the tooling is currently set-up for the
slotted headstocks only on 12 frets, as there is a solid or slotted headstock option for 14 fret necks

[sachi]

Totally off topic but I think Taylor's slotheads are gorgeous.

[not darth]

The BTO spec sheets for the 12 fret do list a choice of slotted or standard peghead.

The slotted does have a greater break angle, which should increase playability.

-K

[Tammany Tiger]

Taylor Customer Service told me yesterday that only the slot heads are available.

I just got off the phone with Jim Tordoff and worked up an order on the guitar. He is sending me the build sheet in a minute so we will know for sure.

As a practical matter, I will not order a standard peghead without Gotoh 510s so ordering it with the standard slot head is a big money saver. Overall I am fine with the slot heads and with the money that I have saved on Gotohs and Addi CV bracing (also not available as a 12 fret option), I have done some nice things on the guitar such as ordering it with a bone saddle and nut and upgrading from black plastic binding to ebony.

The guitar will be an all mahogany 12 fret GC non cutaway. Edgeburst finish all over. Ebony binding, three piece back with ebony mini wedge. Ebony rosette with bound sound hole. Cream and white purfling. No fretboard markers. Gloss back, sides and top; satin neck. No electronics. Bone nut and saddle.

I solved the ivory tuner button problem by ordering the guitar with no end or strap pins. This will enable me to add ivory pins and to use straps with ordinary sized strap holes. The ivory end pin, cream purfling and ivory tuners will be nice accents to the overall dark color of the guitar.

[Tammany Tiger]

The BTO spec sheets for the 12 fret do list a choice of slotted or standard peghead.

The slotted does have a greater break angle, which should increase playability.

-K

Can someone explain to me why the increased break angle improves playability? I have always heard that the break angle increases string tension to help the slot head tuners stay in tune better. One of the playability advantages of short scale guitars is relaxed string tension so aren't we going backwards a bit?

[not darth]

The BTO spec sheets for the 12 fret do list a choice of slotted or standard peghead.

The slotted does have a greater break angle, which should increase playability.

-K

Can someone explain to me why the increased break angle improves playability? I have always heard that the break angle increases string tension to help the slot head tuners stay in tune better. One of the playability advantages of short scale guitars is relaxed string tension so aren't we going backwards a bit?

+1
I don't know why this is, either.  It's just something I've heard from knowledgeable people at well known stores (Podium, GR, etc).  I would like to know the physics behind this. 
To me, it seems counter-intuitive that there would be a difference in tension from one headstock style to another - if you change the tension you change the pitch (if string gauge is constant). 
 
-Kris

[Tammany Tiger]

As I think about this, part of the problem is my own careless use of the term "tension." As I have understood the issue, the higher break angle increases friction on the nut so that the tuners have less movement to control. Viewed that way, the string tension below the nut should be the same.

I'm still confused about how the break angle improves playability.

[solosdad]

Tammany, Jim also sells Santa Cruz guitars. Your Taylor all mahogany will not have the voice that a Santa Cruz Mahogany will have. I'm sure Jim will confirm this and it is not that much more than your BTO Taylor! Jim I'm sure would consider giving you one of his SC build slots. If you search the AGF under SC there are nothing but raves about their hog 00and 000's. Don't see many folks extolling their sound. I've played a BTO all hog satin GC that was very quiet. All hog Taylors sound is not in their wheelhouse! Just a thought!

[michaelw]

hi Tammany,
i would suggest contacting Jim directly regarding input on guitars that
you may be considering that he is a dealer for, as you've done business
with him in the past & i believe the rapport you have with Jim is very good,
in terms of likes & dislikes, along with desirabilities in aesthetics & tone

good luck with your decision & i hope that your next guitar
is everything you would like it to be ... & then some