Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF

Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: cigarfan on March 28, 2012, 06:15:10 PM

Title: Tone woods matrix
Post by: cigarfan on March 28, 2012, 06:15:10 PM
This looks to be pretty accurate to my ears but I haven't heard them all. Comes from the Breedlove folks. You folks have an opinion?

http://collingsforum.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/759100063/inlineimg/Y/BreedloveChart1.jpg (http://collingsforum.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/759100063/inlineimg/Y/BreedloveChart1.jpg)
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: mgap on March 28, 2012, 06:54:29 PM
They left out Brazilian Imbuia.   :o   Can't help you much because I have not played a guitar made with Myrtlewood,  Striped Ebony, or Ziricote.  Geeez I got to get out more. :-[
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: cigarfan on March 28, 2012, 07:06:27 PM
They left out Brazilian Imbuia.   :o   Can't help you much because I have not play a guitar made with Myrtlewood,  Striped Ebony, or Ziricote.  Geeez I got to get out more. :-[

Actually, there are quite a few missing from this list ... Bubinga, Blackwood, Cocobolo to name a few others!
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: Herb Hunter on March 28, 2012, 07:15:01 PM
Breedlove may not have left any out if the graphic was intended to represent the woods commonly used by Breedlove. Does Breedlove ever use sapele or ovangkol?



Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: michaelw on March 28, 2012, 08:59:58 PM
Breedlove may not have left any out if the graphic was intended to represent the woods commonly used by Breedlove. Does Breedlove ever use sapele or ovangkol?
ovangkol laminate is used on some of the passport/atlas models (made overseas)

i see sapele listed in their custom shop -
the upcharge for quilted sapele ('the tree' ?) is  :o
http://breedlovemusic.com/custom-shop/build-to-order (http://breedlovemusic.com/custom-shop/build-to-order)

hmm ... build to order :-\
 
a more linear representation, showing more of an overall range on the x-axis &
mid bump, scoop or relatively flat response as the variation on the y-axis is easier
for me to read & interpret & on a chart like this, if mahogany was closer to the center &
the rest of the 'graph' adjusted to it's response in terms of lows, mids & highs
it might make a little more sense (again, probably just to me), but it is what it is -
don't care much for their thicknessing & JLD bridge system, but that's just me
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: ctkarslake on March 29, 2012, 07:28:22 AM
My EIR 420-R is a lot brighter than my mahogany 410 but according to this matrix it shouldn't be.  I think the linear graph that Taylor used to have on their website is a more accurate way of depicting frequency response.
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: Herb Hunter on March 29, 2012, 09:53:23 AM
I find this chart no less useful than Breedlove's:


(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q298/Swablr/TaylorToneChart.jpg)
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: Go Navy on March 29, 2012, 11:07:22 AM
What surprised me about Breedlove's chart is where he places rosewood.  I had always thought that rosewood was desired for its clarity and brightness, not lows.  But I am far from anything resembling expertise on this. 
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: jjrpilot-admin on March 29, 2012, 12:24:36 PM
I always wondered why we have ALL Koa, Hog, etc guitars.  Has anyone ever had or seen an all EIR guitar?  Would it work to have rosewood as a top etc?
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: thebigz on March 29, 2012, 02:18:08 PM
Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about an all rosewood guitar.  Seems like the thing would be a cannon!  Take the back off my jumbo and make a top out of it.... wow, it would be a stunner!
Title: A UTGF Tonewoods Matrix ... yeah!
Post by: cigarfan on March 29, 2012, 07:55:02 PM
a more linear representation, showing more of an overall range on the x-axis &
mid bump, scoop or relatively flat response as the variation on the y-axis is easier
for me to read & interpret & on a chart like this, if mahogany was closer to the center &
the rest of the 'graph' adjusted to it's response in terms of lows, mids & highs
it might make a little more sense


Got a business trip coming up but when I get back I think I'll try and experiment. Maybe develop a UTGF tonewoods matrix with input from everyone here.

michaelw, I think your x and y description above would be a good place to start. I'll work up a template where each of us could locate the woods we know. Then do a mean average for the final display.

These are the tonewoods I could find. Let me know if I missed any. And certainly don't worry if you are not familiar with any of these. We'll just rate what we know.

And, feel free to tell me this is a crazy idea if you think so! Just thought a chart developed by our ears would mean more to me than the others I've seen.

Back and Sides
African Satinwood
Ancient Kauri
Blackheart Sassafras
Blackwood
Bubinga
Chechen
Cocobolo
Granadillo (often referred to as Black Cocobolo)
Hormigo
Koa
Lacewood
Macassar Ebony
Mahogany
Maple (Big leaf)
Maple (European)
Monkey Pod
Myrtlewood
Ovangkol
Paduak
Pau Ferro (also known as Morado or Bolivian Rosewood)
Purple Heart
Rosewood (Amazon)
Rosewood (Brazilian)
Rosewood (East Indian)
Rosewood (Honduran)
Rosewood (Madagascar )
Sapele
Snakewood
Sycamore
Walnut (Black)
Walnut (Claro)
Walnut (White)
Wenge
Ziricote

Soundboard (Top)
Adirondack Spruce (also known as Eastern Red Spruce and Appalachian Spruce)
Englemann Spruce
European Spruce
Italian Spruce
Redwood
Sinker Redwood
Sitka Spruce
Western Red Cedar
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: ctkarslake on March 30, 2012, 01:07:44 PM
It would be interesting and very informative to do a matrix of sorts for top woods as well, good idea!  Would it be logical to use the same "frequency response" dynamic for tops as for the b/s woods?
Title: Re: A UTGF Tonewoods Matrix ... yeah!
Post by: Herb Hunter on March 30, 2012, 07:09:01 PM
Soundboard (Top)
Adirondack Spruce (also known as Eastern Red Spruce and Appalachian Spruce)
Englemann Spruce
European Spruce
Italian Spruce
Redwood
Sinker Redwood
Sitka Spruce
Western Red Cedar




I notice the list contains Engelmann spruce, European spruce and Italian spruce. Italian spruce is European spruce and virtually all European spruce is Picea abies except when it is Engelmann spruce (Picea engelmannii) imported from the U.S. and exported back to the U.S. labeled as German or European spruce.
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: mgap on March 30, 2012, 08:38:53 PM
Quote
imported from the U.S. and exported back to the U.S. labeled as German or European spruce.

Now there is some expert marketing.
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: michaelw on March 30, 2012, 09:45:13 PM
Quote
imported from the U.S. and exported back to the U.S. labeled as German or European spruce.

Now there is some expert marketing.
just like oil  ::)
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: sachi on March 31, 2012, 10:26:53 AM
I always wondered why we have ALL Koa, Hog, etc guitars.  Has anyone ever had or seen an all EIR guitar?  Would it work to have rosewood as a top etc?
There have been a few, jj, and there have been some posts about them over on the AGF. They apparently don't work all that well. Rosewood is a hard wood and reflects sound well, but it does not move much so does not suit as a topwood.
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on March 31, 2012, 12:03:52 PM
I always wondered why we have ALL Koa, Hog, etc guitars.  Has anyone ever had or seen an all EIR guitar?  Would it work to have rosewood as a top etc?

You can certainly use Rosewood for a top but tonally you would not gain anything over Spruce. About ten years ago I had Breedlove build me an all Walnut CM that was truly a work of art but tonally my standard Walnut/Spruce CM was superior in every way.
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: Scriptor on March 31, 2012, 01:56:26 PM
Tradional wood pairings have become traditional for a good reason ... in general Rosewood with Sitka or Englemann have always appealed to me ... I have also become fond of Walnut with Sitka.  I'm sure an all Rosewood guitar would be pretty but I doubt if it would really sing with the soundboard/top being Rosewood.  It might be a darker tone that some would like ... I say this having been surprised by an all Mahogany guitar a couple of years ago.  It would not be my only guitar, but that all Mahogany had something special ...
Title: Re: Tone woods matrix
Post by: michaelw on March 31, 2012, 05:21:49 PM
I always wondered why we have ALL Koa, Hog, etc guitars.  Has anyone ever had or seen an all EIR guitar?  Would it work to have rosewood as a top etc?
whatever top that has been used on a T5 could  likely be used
on an acoustic, but it may not sound 'the greatest' played acoustically -
rosewood, cocobolo, macassar ebony, maple ...
tasmanian blackwood & walnut are good, as is imbuia &
i imagine ovangkol (like on the T5-X) would be pretty nice on a GS

myrtlewood & satinwood are not currently on the BTO 'menu' &
aa-quilt maple has been absent for a while, but if it ever comes back :o
i'd like this kind of top on a GS-c BTO ;) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-T5-Guitar-Blue-Edgeburst-with-case-/320832760370?pt=Guitar&hash=item4ab31f6a32#ht_513wt_1270)

Title: Re: A UTGF Tonewoods Matrix ... yeah!
Post by: Picken Pappy on March 31, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
These are the tonewoods I could find. Let me know if I missed any. And certainly don't worry if you are not familiar with any of these. We'll just rate what we know.

There is one tone wood that is very seldom seen. Guild guitar used it for a short time in the early to mid 1980’s with fantastic results, the D46. Solid Ash back and sides with a Sitka spruce top. It gives you the lows like rose wood and the mid and highs like maple. I know Washburn uses ash in a few guitars; I’ve played them and was disappointed. They just don’t seem to have it right IMHO. But also having a D46, I know what beautiful tones Ash can give.

(http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/Dane59/1985%20Guild%20D-46%20Blond/Guild009-2.jpg)
(http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/Dane59/1985%20Guild%20D-46%20Blond/Guild010-2.jpg)
Title: Re: A UTGF Tonewoods Matrix ... yeah!
Post by: cigarfan on March 31, 2012, 07:32:48 PM
There is one tone wood that is very seldom seen. Guild guitar used it for a short time in the early to mid 1980’s with fantastic results, the D46. Solid Ash back and sides with a Sitka spruce top. It gives you the lows like rose wood and the mid and highs like maple. I know Washburn uses ash in a few guitars; I’ve played them and was disappointed. They just don’t seem to have it right IMHO. But also having a D46, I know what beautiful tones Ash can give.

(http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/Dane59/1985%20Guild%20D-46%20Blond/Guild009-2.jpg)

Pappy ... that is one purdy gitar!

Ash has been added to the list.

In addition I have added quite a few more. The current list is:

African Satinwood
Alder
Ancient Kauri
Ash
Basswood
Black limba
Blackheart Sassafras
Blackwood
Bocote
Bubinga
Butternut
Canalete
Chechen
Cocobolo
Granadillo (often referred to as Black Cocobolo)
Hormigo
Hormigo
Imbuia (also called Brazilian Walnut)
Koa
Korina (Black)
Korina (White)
Lacewood
Macassar Ebony
Mahogany
Makore
Maple (Big leaf)
Maple (Birds Eye)
Maple (European)
Meranti
Monkey Pod
Muira Piranga
Myrtlewood
Oak
Ovangkol
Padauk (African)
Padauk (Andaman)
Pau Ferro (also known as Morado or Bolivian Rosewood)
Pear
Poplar
Poplar (Tulip)
Purple Heart
Rosewood (Amazon)
Rosewood (Brazilian)
Rosewood (East Indian)
Rosewood (Honduran)
Rosewood (Madagascar )
Sapele
Snakewood
Sycamore
Teak
Walnut (Black)
Walnut (Claro)
Walnut (White)
Wenge
Zebrano
Zebrawood
Ziricote