GS Cocobolo Ltd. Fall or 616ce Brown Sugar?

[tremolo arm]

Having had a 114 and a 214 (koa laminate sides and back), I am now considering the next step in the Taylor hierarchy.

I have on my radar the two guitars in the subject field.
- The GS Cocobolo Ltd. is a 2011 model with ES1
- The 616CE is a 2015 model with ES2

In terms of usage, this would be used for an acoustic duo, (female vocal + guitar), 50% strumming, 25% finger picking, 25% flatpicking.

The 616ce is in far better nick than the GS Ltd aesthetically speaking but I prefer the look of the Cocobolo, which also sports a maple-bound neck.

Currently the GS Cocobolo is at $xxxx.xx, whilst the 616 is at $xxxx.xx

I've only played the GS Ltd. Cocobolo and I absolutely loved it. The neck in particular is amazing and so easy to fret. The Taylor spec says it is a "standard carver", whereas I noticed the 616ce comes with a slim neck. Are these vastly different in feel?

Is the GS Ltd. Fall effectively a 816?

What other differences do these two guitars have, and generally, which one would Taylor players prefer and why?



Price discussion.

[Edward]

- GS body is larger and "bigger" sounding acoustically, uses medium gauge strings, and the ES2 is a hit or miss with folks.  Maple offers wonderful, prominent fundamental tones and makes for a punchy "forward" voice.  Good guitar that would certainly not disappoint. 

- GC is shorter scale with lights so will be "lighter" to the touch and more responsive, will not have the total volume and projection of a GS with mediums, and has the ES1.3, the best-sounding ES they make, IMHO.  Coco is a beautiful-sounding wood, typically just gorgeous that I've always heard in my hands, and we're also seeing less of it as time goes.  This along with the "Ltd" status offers if more "appointments" (typically gotoh tuners, nicer aesthetics) that make the guitar more "special" in my mind.

So long as you like the tone, I would go for the GC in coco, hands down.  If you want "louder" just plug in and the ES will deliver beautifully (and better than the ES2 to my ears).  But the overall voice (as far as "specs" but also my limited but experience with coco) of the GC make it the choice between these two, as well as the more "personal" feel of the smaller-bodied GC, and a clear choice for me.  And in live use for your duo, I would clearly prefer the ES1.3, not to mention the GC body: it simply amplifies very well!  The GS maple is a very nice guitar, bar none, but it would be easy to find should you want to scratch that itch in the future.  You're asking for opinions, so you'll get many.  Trust your ears and your hands: go with the one you'd rather play.  But since you're asking, I'd easily go for this particular GC Ltd.

Edward

[tremolo arm]

Corrected the codes - they were wrong

[DennisG]

Sound is a very, very personal thing.  But I would be hard-pressed to pass up a cocobolo guitar that was reasonably priced.  In my experience, it's the absolute finest tone wood in terms of delivering the kind of sound I like.

[tremolo arm]

- GS body is larger and "bigger" sounding acoustically, uses medium gauge strings, and the ES2 is a hit or miss with folks.  Maple offers wonderful, prominent fundamental tones and makes for a punchy "forward" voice.  Good guitar that would certainly not disappoint. 

- GC is shorter scale with lights so will be "lighter" to the touch and more responsive, will not have the total volume and projection of a GS with mediums, and has the ES1.3, the best-sounding ES they make, IMHO.  Coco is a beautiful-sounding wood, typically just gorgeous that I've always heard in my hands, and we're also seeing less of it as time goes.  This along with the "Ltd" status offers if more "appointments" (typically gotoh tuners, nicer aesthetics) that make the guitar more "special" in my mind.

So long as you like the tone, I would go for the GC in coco, hands down.  If you want "louder" just plug in and the ES will deliver beautifully (and better than the ES2 to my ears).  But the overall voice (as far as "specs" but also my limited but experience with coco) of the GC make it the choice between these two, as well as the more "personal" feel of the smaller-bodied GC, and a clear choice for me.  And in live use for your duo, I would clearly prefer the ES1.3, not to mention the GC body: it simply amplifies very well!  The GS maple is a very nice guitar, bar none, but it would be easy to find should you want to scratch that itch in the future.  You're asking for opinions, so you'll get many.  Trust your ears and your hands: go with the one you'd rather play.  But since you're asking, I'd easily go for this particular GC Ltd.

Edward

Edward,

Thank you so much for your reply.

Let me also apologise - I am a complete pillock - because I completely messed up the codes (which are now corrected).
The Cocobolo is actually a GS, not a GC. I just noticed this looking at he photos of the guitar and the label inside.

Does this change your opinion significantly?

[tremolo arm]

Sound is a very, very personal thing.  But I would be hard-pressed to pass up a cocobolo guitar that was reasonably priced.  In my experience, it's the absolute finest tone wood in terms of delivering the kind of sound I like.

Thank you Dennis
My concern with the GS Cocobolo is that it has some fret wear in the first 5 registers (may be able to re-crown or plek to avoid a re-fret) and being a 2011 model it also features the old ES system. As Edward said, people are divided over ES1 / ES2 but for investment / re-sale value it could be an issue.

[xtremearmor]

Sound is a very, very personal thing.  But I would be hard-pressed to pass up a cocobolo guitar that was reasonably priced.  In my experience, it's the absolute finest tone wood in terms of delivering the kind of sound I like.

I'm in agreement on the cocobolo.  Beautiful to look at and cocobolo on a GS body would be a tone monster.  Not that a 616ce would sound bad either, probably just not as boomy and quicker decay, less bloom, which could be a good thing for playing live with a singer.  Me, I'm still thinking cocobolo. 

I'm no expert on fretwear, but could it have something to do with user error, as in mashing on the frets?  Either way, is a re=fret if it's necessary prohibitive?  Same for the ES=1 vs ES=2.  I'm not sure there is a real difference sound wise, at least to the extent an audience would notice or care. 

Either way, a good problem to have.  Good luck!

[Edward]

Well the coco ltd with the ES1.3 would be my choice: that it is a GS body is --to me-- not as good as the same ltd in a GC body, but still preferable over the maple.  Keep in mind, I love maple and own maple Taylors, myself!  But given what you've described, I'd still prefer the Coco Ltd.  That it is the larger GS body will make it the proverbial "cannon," and given that you're comparing two GS guitars, the coco in ltd trim still puts it ahead in my book.

Edward

[zeebow]

those 2011 cocobolo ltd are soooo beautiful. GS is a tad big for me, so I can't speak on how they sound tone wise.

[tremolo arm]

Thanks for your wisdom.

I have to say I loved the feel of the Coco but the 616CE is in pristine (as new) condition and it is way cheaper too.

Here are some photos of the 616CE:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuWeUjUR_MN9g7EACcZf9hdiqng0mA

Grain wise, the Coco is not as vibrant, but I do prefer the inlays, tuners and the bound neck.
In terms of woods and appointments, would you say the GS Coco Ltd is equivalent to a 816 or 916?

Also, in terms of resale, which one would hold its value better, given that the Coco is Ltd but is 8 years old (with ES1), whereas the 616CE is a "standard" - at half the age of the Coco and sports the ES2?

[mgap]

The 2011 Cocobolo LTD is an 816ce with all the LTD appointments.:
CV Bracing, Cocobolo/Boxwood Rosette,
Boxwood Split Diamond Fretboard Inlay, Figured Maple Binding,
Cocobolo Backstrap, Gotoh Tuners.
All of these appointments push it towards the 900 series.

My personal opinion is that the 2011 has much more bang for that extra dollar, I think it is quite possibly one of the best LTD that Taylar has issued.  It will command better resale desirability.

[Strumming Fool]

I may be the lone voice here, but having just purchased a 614 V class, I would say that the 2015 redesigned 600s are now a more versatile guitar than previous maple incarnations. While it's still the honeymoon, I'm amazed at the sound and playability of this 614 - truly exceptional and totally different from my other six GAs including my 2012 maple custom.... Cocobolo definitely adds value to a guitar, but the 616 will be your player IMO.

[timfitz63]

Taylor limiteds are always a great value for the money, and Cocobolo has always struck me as sounding like Rosewood (to which it is related) with a splash of warmth.  Now that Taylor has moved away from Cocobolo in their standard offerings, those that are out there are going to become harder and harder to pry from someone else's hands -- whereas Taylor's renewed commitment to Maple as a tonewood would suggest that a 616 will always be there, should you ever want one.  Both woods can have striking figuring; but based on the other factors, I'd say your choice is clear:  go Coco...!

[tremolo arm]

Hmmm... It sounds like the majority favour the "Coco" in this duel, despite it being older and not as mint as the 616 (and also more expensive).

I also loved the Coco when I tried it. It seemed effortless to play (I wonder what gauge strings it was strung with. Having no opportunity to try the 616 (the shop where it's at is too far from where I am), that may seal the deal.

For me a guitar has to have a visual effect as well as as a good sound. It has to have a long lasting appeal, so when positioned on a stand - almost teasing you to always pick it up. The Coco Ltd has that in spades. That unique rosette, the colour of the Sitka top (paler but yellower at the same time) and that bound neck just ooze elegance, whereas the 616 (whilst still a beautiful guitar), is just too similar to other Taylor models (especially when viewed on a stand or from an audience position).

Decisions decisions...

[tremolo arm]

As a way of update, I am now a proud owner of a 2011 GS Ltd Fall Cocobolo