ES2 dialing in a good sound adjustments

[JdOzone]

Ok I’m behind schedule wanted to wait till after a couple of shows before attempting this...  last nights show was a fight to get a good sound. It was cold out that always tights wood grain but still way to much work for a good sound. I will be cutting the new nut I ordered so original is still good.

I’m going to remove original writing down amount of turns to free it..
Then install 3 pieces of new nut after cut and tighten back amount..

Will be doing it this weekend.  Let’s hope this fixes the phase twangy thing.
If not I just put back on original.  I will take a few pics and start a new thread for it.

After paying around 5grand I should not have to fight so hard for good sound..
Never have I had problems like this from Martin or Ovation, I love my Taylor 914ce don’t get me wrong places easy etc sounds great unplugged. But very upset with my live sound and I use a Bose l1 s2 with b2 sub and t1 digital mixer.  It’s not my equipment

[Geosh]

I know you haven’t been active in a while, but did you ever do it? I read the whole thing with anticipation and then ... <crickets>.   Please don’t leave me hanging like this. It is worse than an episode of Lost.

[JdOzone]

Sorry I thought I did post my findings.  It works real good except to
Get it to work you have to replace the cut out parts somehow
It isolated very well but became a problem when changing strings ect.
Pieces fell out because they become lose long wise.

I found that 2 things worked best.  Get three Allen wrenches and
Put them all in at once and play and adjust like a 3 band we.
Do this with your pa or amp eq flat. This will give you a closer to
 what you want with no eq and leaves adjustments more available.

Second the new Taylor’s need a low freq roll off. I bought a tonebon piezo floor preamp.
This gave me different low freq roll off. And a great eq and preamp.  .
The bass noise from top and handling was a big source of problems. A roll off around 80 to 100hz leaves town on low notes but gets rid of all the noise..

I hope this helps....

[Twang Banger]

I have a new 2019 714ce ... I appreciate all the information.  However, I have to say that the whole idea that we even have to tweak, adjust, and consider workarounds because of quacking pickup systems and noise, means those systems stink.

I love my Taylor guitars, but I really do not like the ES2 system (or the ES1 either) due to the harsh upper mid tones.  In all candor, the new 714ce sounds a lot like an old Gibson ES 125 I have with P-90.  A nice acoustic should not sound like an old jazz guitar when plugged in.  There's no brilliance, no shimmer, just upper-mid harsh and irritating tonality and excessive noisiness. 

It's ridiculous to see the hype they put into these systems and they sound like this - I'm embarrassed for them.

[Strumming Fool]

I have two Taylors with the ES1.3 system, and they serve me well. However, the last two Taylors I ordered, along with the one I just ordered are without the ES2 system. Not a big fan. Without the ES2, I'm able to use a bone saddle and install whatever after market system is available. I've been using the LR Baggs Lyric in all my other Taylors with great results, and I'll do the same with the one I just ordered.

[Twang Banger]

I've read all of this thread, and all I can say and point out is, how utterly ridiculous it is that we have to jump through all of these hoops to "fix" a system that Taylor (falsely?) advertises as the end all, do all, be all.  Taylor makes such a quality guitar, then completely fall on their face with this Expression System charade.  They really need to totally transform it and apologize to all of us!  ES and ES2 completely suck, tone-wise, and Taylor needs to quit saying otherwise.

Has anyone tried this? https://www.goacousticaudio.com/products/es-replacement-system

It's pretty expensive, but I might do it and report back

[Earl]

unexpected double post???

[Earl]

Twang, I completely agree with you.  Taylor should stick to what they do best -- making great guitars.  Quit dabbling in electronics as a default just for a few extra bucks.  It becomes a self-fulfilling retail prophesy - dealers only stock Taylor instruments with factory pickups, so that is what they sell the most of.  If they wanted to do some basic prep like having a pre-drilled 1/2" end block hole and a 1/4" jack installed that would be fine.  Then let the customer decide how (or if) to add a pickup system.

I've made no secret of preferring the ES1.3 system and completely avoiding ES2.  The phrase "not ready for prime time" always comes to mind.  Having an ES2 pickup is a total barrier for me ever buying another Taylor guitar with electronics.  I don't need pickups any longer and only consider guitars without a pickup installed, either new or used.  [I know you can order without electronics, but I prefer to play before pay.  Even with Taylor's wonderfully consistent build quality, the wood in each specific guitar is an individual, so you never know what you are going to get tonally].

[PaulWood]

Totally agree with you, Earl. I have 5 Taylors, only one of which has ES2 - and that one hasn't been out of the case for months and months - can't bear to plug it in! I'm pretty happy with ES1.3, which I have on 3 of my guitars, but I wouldn't say it's great - adequate would be a closer word to use!

Like others on this thread, I would like them all to sound as good as my old Ovation!

[Edward]

Mehhhh.  Everyone has their own preferences, expectations, and most of all tonal norm on which one judges all other tone.  It is this norm that sets the foundation in one's mind as to what sounds good, and with acoustic pup systems, this "norm" is all over the map, but largely dominated by decades of piezo-based systems.  That said, enjoy what you prefer!

As for me, personally and fwiw, I am no fan of the ES2, but neither do I hate it.  I think it lacks in many places, but is still far superior to many piezo systems out there.  Yes, it needs significant EQ to sound more "acoustic-y" through a PA.  By contrast, the ES 1.3 needs the least adjustment (precious little, IME), so this stands as my favorite.  That said, I can --and do-- EQ the ES2 to sound good live.  Better than a K&K, better than piezo USTs, and better than my old ovation (which was good, mind you).  Every acoustic pickup system --every one of them-- has its own traits, which includes tonal shortcomings.

I see the clear issue with any proprietary system.  That Taylor still supports the 1.3 is good for me and many others, but that day will end, and I hope mine will still be rockin.  Then the ES2 will fall by the wayside.  There is wisdom in buying a non-ES Taylor; this I understand.  But I am here now, and I want a pup system that works great live now and hopefully for the foreseeable future.  This is why I love the ES1.3, and can still use the ES2 to good effect.  If I'm still around when Taylor no longer supports these systems, I'll figure it out then.  But for now, I'd take the ES2 over many other systems currently available.  The exception is likely the Baggs Anthem, but there I digress

Edward

[ritchie69]

i’m done with the es2, the last week my 814c without electronics has finally arrived, i’ve put a simple fishman matrix infinity pickup and I couldn’t be happier with the sound! i chosed  fishman ‘cause is the same installed on my martins, i know it very well and while it isn’t the best system (surely the anthem is the most complete e realistic) it’s a pickup that works well in every situation, just like his counterpart lr baggs element.

[SDTaylorman]

I rarely plug in so the ES system...or any other (I have a few guitars with built in electronics) is generally irrelevant to me. When I do plug in though I use a DI and some amp controls and it sounds just fine to me.

[ritchie69]

with es2 I’ve encountered inconsistent results, on some guitars it works well, on some other the sound was barely usable, and getting worse if used with an external preamp in trying to tame the excessive high frequencies response. from here the choice to order a taylor without electronics.

[Gabrielobrien]

Hi, I'm an audio engineer and also an authorized repair tech. The ES2 is a wholly different pickup than under saddles like Martin uses. Bose systems such low end hard and are very sub heavy. The first step is always setting the guitar EQ controls flat and setting the volume all the way up on the guitar. On the channel of the Bose, set the EQ and volume flat, also set the master volume flat. Slowly increase input gain till you get good signal. This is how you should set up a channel for anything you're amplifying. Here's a helpful guide I made for starting out:https://vimeo.com/670970756

Another factor folks rarely look at is that the ES2 is far more reflective of the player - how they play, the pick weight, etc and the wood the guitar is made of. If you're strumming hard with a .60 you're going to get a lot of pick sound. Under saddle pickups have almost no dynamics. You can strum lightly, bash on them, use heavy picks or light picks and they sound the exact same. Here's a comparison: https://vimeo.com/664824903

[jazzbass12]

Hi Gabriel,
Great videos. On the comparison video https://vimeo.com/664824903 (4:08), I could never set my volume and bass/treble that high. In all my amps it is just too much gain. My pre -amps couldn't handle anything above 1/8 without clipping.
I have always had soundman tell me that I was giving them too much gain from my guitar. I generally have guitar volume at 1/4 with bass/treble at around 12:00 to give them a suitable level without blasting their preamps..
Interesting