New Off Assembly Line vs New Old Stock?

[krugjr]

Thought about sending question to "Ask Bob" in the W&S but you all are just as informative and much quicker. Any difference between a Taylor that has been stored in a "controlled environment" at a dealer for 2-3 yrs and one that just came off the assembly line? (assuming all materials and construction methods the same)  mostly concerning, does a guitar need to be played right away to properly start the "opening up" and "tone maturing" processes and does that "opening up" only start when a guitar is played, and can that maturing process be hindered if a guitar sits for 2-3 yrs without being played?

[mgap]

I purchased a 2011 in 2013 I could not tell the difference between that one a a factory fresh off the truck guitar.  As far as opening up, well, I don't know what that guitar sounded like when it was factory fresh off the truck.  I do know that it was never opened or played at the store.  One thing I can tell you is it is a beaut!   

[jalbert]

I'm going to side-step the question somewhat. Sorry. I would wonder why the guitar had been sitting in dealer inventory for so long. If it were a small store off the beaten path and the guitar was expensive I'd be less hesitant than if it were a "shop queen" in a store with a lot of traffic. My guess is that the maturing process happens regardless of whether a guitar is played, but is definitely accelerated by playing. So I would expect a 2-3 year old NOS to sound different (all other things being equal) than one just off the truck.

[timfitz63]

Speaking somewhat from experience, I've purchased two guitars that were new, old-stock (NOS), and I haven't noticed any discernible difference between their sound quality and a newer guitar.

Now, one of the guitars of which I speak is a Liberty Tree Guitar, so it's a bit harder to make a one-to-one comparison there, since the back/side wood is unique.  But the guitar sounds pretty good to me, regardless.  That guitar was a 2002 issue, and I purchased it late last year -- approximately 11 years old.  My understanding (through my correspondence with the authorized Taylor dealer) was that the dealer had kept for display purposes in their store, and only decided to sell it around the time I purchased it.  I don't know how much it was played while it was displayed, but it doesn't look like it was handled very much 'cause it looks like a new guitar.

The other was the T5-S with the Aztec Gold top, which was a 2008 model that I purchased earlier in 2013 (5 years old, almost to the day), also from an authorized Taylor dealer.  I simply bought it as an interesting companion piece to a '98 Corvette that I own with the same color of paint (well, at least the names are the same; the actual color shades are a bit different; see attachment).  Anyway, that guitar essentially sounds like any other T5-S I've played.

Based on what I've read, the 'opening-up' and 'tone maturing' process starts right away and progresses with age; playing the guitar essentially just speeds that process along by 'limbering' up the wood, in particular, the top wood -- making it more responsive.  It's probably analogous to exercising/flexing the human body:  little by little, it gets better.

[Edward]

I seriously doubt anything "happens" to a guitar that is literally just sitting around (assuming proper RH and no adverse conditions, of course).  Any "opening up" process cones from playing: vibrations, and lots of it, compounded with the passing years is what tends to alter an acoustic's tone.  Consider NOS as simply "new."  Whatever variations one may perceive are likely the timbral differences that exist between guitars in the first place.  If there's any advantage, perhaps with such a "closet queen" as it were you can try and bargain for a better price.  And if from a Taylor dealer, then you get to enjoy a full factory warranty to boot. 

Edward 

[MB]

Someone posted this link here before, but it is very interesting. Robert Godin talking about guitar woods and the effects of a guitar being played.
It is quite interesting to ponder: http://youtu.be/MPh9_gFH7t4

It made me look back on my experience with a closet queen 2011 Spring LTD GC 12 fret cedar/macassar. It had been sitting in a closet unplayed and I ended up selling it. It just wasn't for me I guess. Perhaps being that it sat in the closet for 2 years while the other guitars were out being played...it was a late bloomer? At the end of the day though, I think if you play a guitar and it speaks to you, it doesn't matter if it's right off the production line or been played like a six string on a Tommy Emmanuel tour!

[Gary-N-LA]

I agree with those who say a guitar only opens up when it's played.  In fact, I wonder if sitting around for a long time might in some way lower the ultimate potential of an instrument.  I'm no luthier, but guitars are meant to be played and sitting in a case or hanging on a wall unplayed for years might mean the instrument cures differently - the glues, the joints - and might never reach the potential it would have had.

[krugjr]

MB.....thanks for the Godin link, some good stuff.....I've heard a little of that philosophy here at UTGF and that is why I asked today's question, especially the part where your guitar "learns" how you play...it opens up the most with the vibrations you play the most...and I never would have thought about exposing an acoustic to the stereo, etc, etc...pretty cool...

thanks for the feedback so far, all of you!

[Jersey tuning]

I bought a NOS 2005 614ce in late 2007 at a fairly busy GC in NJ.  It was the best sounding, best playing x14;instrument in the store, presumably because it was played in and more opened up.

[MexicoMike]

and I never would have thought about exposing an acoustic to the stereo, etc, etc...pretty cool…"

I first heard this many years ago when I was very young and learning to play the guitar.   A guitar "learning" to sound better, whether by listening to your stereo, or by being played, makes a nice story.  But in my experience that's all it is.    Great sounding guitars were great sounding when they left the shop, they didn't magically become that way.

FWIW, obviously the above is MY OPINION based on my experience with acoustic guitars over a lot of years.  If someone can actually demonstrate this sound improvement, I'll be more than happy to admit I have been wrong.  However, one would think that the proponents of placing a guitar in front of the stereo and playing music or test tones to it to "improve" the sound would set up a simple before/after recording to demonstrate the improvement.  Interestingly, there HAVE been such tests with violins using all sorts of very scientific equipment and no difference in the sound occurred.  Scientific American (if I remember right) had an article about it some years ago in reference to making a new violin sound like a Strad.  Further, quite recently, in a blind test in France, violinists preferred the sound of brand new violins to old violins…the old violins were Strads and Guarnari's.

This would also tend to support the fact that professional classical and flamenco guitar players do not play old guitars in concert…a few  years old is pretty much the limit.  Paco de Lucia, for example is constantly using a new instrument.  This is one reason that endorsements by players aren't worth much.  The guitar they are playing today will be discarded shortly in favor of another one, frequently from a different maker. 

If it doesn't sound good now, it's never going to, no matter how much Jimi Hendrix/Leo Kottke/Paco de Lucia/Andre Segovia you play TO it or ON it. 

[DennisG]

Bob Taylor, in response to a letter in Wood & Steel, recalled a guitar that sat in his closet, virtually unplayed for many years.  Upon finally taking it out of the case, he noticed that the guitar sounded appreciably different from the way it did when it was first built.  And upon further investigation, under a microscope, he observed that the wood had changed on a cellular level.

If this is true, and we have no reason to believe it's not, Bob is saying that a guitar will change over time, regardless of whether it's played or not.

[Cindy]

Bob Taylor, in response to a letter in Wood & Steel, recalled a guitar that sat in his closet, virtually unplayed for many years.  Upon finally taking it out of the case, he noticed that the guitar sounded appreciably different from the way it did when it was first built.  And upon further investigation, under a microscope, he observed that the wood had changed on a cellular level.

If this is true, and we have no reason to believe it's not, Bob is saying that a guitar will change over time, regardless of whether it's played or not.

This is interesting information. I haven't heard about it previously but don't doubt what you say. I think a guitar's tone has a tendency to change even when it isn't played so this might very well be the reason why.

[Gary-N-LA]

Perhaps this is a matter of degree.  Wood, being organic, will age even in a closet.  But PLAYING a guitar will change it more, and in different ways.  I love the notion that what you play on a guitar - those particular vibrations - "tune" the guitar to sound best on the music you love most.  Not sure I believe it, but it's a seductive notion.

[fretted]

My guitars sound different from day to day. Maybe it's my perception and reception, or maybe it's the barometric pressure, humidity, etc. And often, they sound different after about 20 minutes of playing.

[timfitz63]

My guitars sound different from day to day. Maybe it's my perception and reception, or maybe it's the barometric pressure, humidity, etc. And often, they sound different after about 20 minutes of playing.

I've noticed a similar thing as well.  And have attributed it largely to the same things you have (my current mental state, level of fatigue, atmospheric conditions, etc.) -- as well as my inconsistent skills that I'm working to improve.

I've actually started doing something that I think mitigates some of the atmospheric effects of the 20-minute 'warm-up' period, though:  When I get home from work, I'll take mine out of the case and put it in the guitar stand of my playing area well before I plan to start playing (usually about an hour prior).  I'll prepare my dinner, sit down a bit to relax while I eat, then start practicing.  By then, the guitar has adjust to the prevailing atmospheric conditions.  So if it doesn't sound right, it's probably me...