Author Topic: The Grand Orchestra  (Read 35191 times)

Edward

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2013, 06:07:28 PM »
Thanks, as always, to Herb for the detailed info WRT dimensions.

It think it is very noteworthy that the respective dimensions of the GO and JM are seriously close, which suggests  to my peabrain that when Taylor announced a couple o' years ago the "revoicing" (their words) of the Jumbo, I think they R&D'd it a number of ways ...then ended up saying "naaahh, not differently voiced enough; let's change the body altogether."   Which then results in said body style.  Fine, I get it.  But that doesn't mean I want to "get it." ;)

Like I said, maybe it will blow me away and change how I think about it once it is in my hands ...after all, I do like Taylor's (and other) jumbos.  It's a classic shape that, while not my primary guitar shape by a longshot, is a lovely guitar to have amidst my "go-to" ones.  But the GO body??  Nothing "classic" about it to me; just a big guitar; and big lookin, not in a nice way to these eyes.  So let's assume that its tone is big, bold, and all that other ad-copy stuff that really does bear itself out.  Great ...hope folks dig it and buy a ton of em.  I am guessing that I won't be one of them ...again, because of the shape.  But Ed, what about the tone ...and what if you love it?!!  Yeah, I know I said that, and indeed believe the tone is the paramount criterion: but that doesn't mean other criteria does not apply.  And for me, it's big and chunky, and not at all alluring in any sense.

StrummingF makes the point for me: there are plenty of "big guitars" out there, not least of which are GS bods and old Taylor JMs.  I would have liked to have seen Taylor add to the other end of their spectrum and offer guitars on this side of the GS.  Sure, "save the Jumbo" and remake/revoice it while retaining the classic lines (FWIW, Porsche has understood this mantra since 1963 with their venerable 911).  But Taylor opted to go a different path; not the first time they blazed their own trail, eh? :)

Darn good thing I don't run the joint as Taylor has made lots of great decisions with superb execution by eschewing tradition to some extent, and blazing their own trail.  Huge kudos to them, and many of their innovations comprise why I love the company and their products.  So if I am dead-wrong on the GO and it increases folks' interest in Taylors, then great.  But for me, I may just keep an eye out for a real Jumbo in the future :D

Edward
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 06:23:34 PM by Edward »

Nomad

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 06:10:58 PM »
The description of the grand orchestra model being gigantic and reminiscent of a Mexican guitarrón seems odd to me considering that the guitar is smaller than Taylor's jumbo guitars.

I thought the same thing.

I'm reserving any comment until I actually get to hold and play one.

One thing I think we can be sure of, though, is that it'll probably be a good guitar if Andy Powers was involved.

Andromeda

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2013, 06:32:56 PM »
I love the jumbo body style and I love the GS body style. The GO seems like a love child of both. I am in heaven and excited. Now I have to start counting and rolling up my pennies.
2016 Taylor Custom Cedar-Rosewood GS
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ataylor

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2013, 06:34:39 PM »
The pickguards on the 500 and 600 series versions certainly aren't doing this model any favors, and I think that's part of where some of the comments about the looks are coming from. That said, I don't blame Taylor for doing their own take on the Jumbo shape and I'm curious to see how they feel and sound.

One thing that will be interesting is to see how this model affects the GS in terms of sales. It seems like people were already trending back to the GA from the GS, and I wonder if the GO will steal some would-be GS buyers from the other direction. Who knows, maybe people will find the GA a little too quiet and the the GO a little loud and go with the one in the middle. I expect the opposite will happen and people's preferences will polarize to the GA and the GO when looking for a non-dreadnought Taylor shape.

What I'm most excited about, however, is 700 series guitars without cutaways. Cutaways always looked weird to me with the vintage-style appointments.
2005 Taylor 210 (sitka/sapele)

michaelw

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2013, 06:39:48 PM »
a 12 fret 712 & 714 (& 710) should be added for more vintage 'vibe' -
maybe a 718 next year ???
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Nomad

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2013, 06:41:08 PM »
In my opinion, the 700's are some of the best cosmetically appointed guitars that Taylor, or anyone else, for that matter, have ever produced.

michaelw

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2013, 06:49:36 PM »
the satin vintageburst mahogany neck is a very nice touch too :)
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ataylor

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2013, 06:53:14 PM »
a 12 fret 712 & 714 (& 710) should be added for more vintage 'vibe' -
maybe a 718 next year ???


Sweetwater has a new 710 in stock already. Looks gorgeous. I'll be in trouble if they do a 12-fret 712. It's easier to resist a BTO but if that guitar is already made for me... :/


In my opinion, the 700's are some of the best cosmetically appointed guitars that Taylor, or anyone else, for that matter, have ever produced.

Agreed.

It's probably a good thing that all-mahogany Builder's Reserve 12-fret with 700 series appointments comes with a ukelele, otherwise I'd have probably splurged for one.
2005 Taylor 210 (sitka/sapele)

Joseph

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2013, 07:16:55 PM »
I assume that they will know how to voice that guitar to sound different than the GS or the jumbo. I love this quote from Kurt Listug about their opening of Taylor Guitars.  I think Bob Taylor will know what he is doing offering something new.....

"By the middle of 1974, Sam Radding was getting tired of running the American Dream. He announced he was going to close the shop, but after some of the workers urged him to reconsider, he agreed to sell it instead. Listug and fellow co-worker Steve Schemmer decided to form a partnership to buy the business.
Listug's father quickly spotted the one thing missing in his son's plan. "The first thing my dad asked me was, ‘Do you or Steve know how to make guitars?'" Listug recalls. "I had to tell him no, we didn't. He suggested that if we were going into the guitar-building business, it might be a good idea to have a partner who actually knew how to build guitars. He asked me who the best builder at the Dream was, and when I told him Bob Taylor, he said he'd loan me the money if we could get Taylor to sign on."

from American Dreamers article @ Acoustic Guitar
Taylor 358e GO (2018)
Taylor 818e GO (2013 1st Edition)
Taylor GS7 Custom (2009)
Guild F-512 (1979)

michaelw

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2013, 07:22:25 PM »
Sweetwater has a new 710 in stock already. Looks gorgeous. I'll be in trouble if they do a 12-fret 712. It's easier to resist a BTO but if that guitar is already made for me... :/
no e too ... thanks for the heads up :)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/710SBNoCut?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CPriptmV-LQCFQ45nAod6EsA3g
imho, it'd be nice to continue the burst finish of the top & neck with a natural edgeburst on the back & sides -
& for those that opt for a natural finish, an ab rosette with MOP heritage diamond fretmarkers & gold tuners would be 8)

A 522m 12 fret with mahogany burst & ivoroid deco diamonds would be pretty sweet, i think :)
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Nomad

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2013, 07:40:58 PM »
I'm just glad I don't buy guitars anymore. I'd be in a heap of trouble.

Daybreakdays

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2013, 08:24:10 PM »
But the GO body??  Nothing "classic" about it to me; just a big guitar; and big lookin, not in a nice way to these eyes.  So let's assume that its tone is big, bold, and all that other ad-copy stuff that really does bear itself out.  Great ...hope folks dig it and buy a ton of em.  I am guessing that I won't be one of them ...again, because of the shape.

I don't understand your reservations. On the one hand you are criticising the GO for looking too big, yet you seem to have no issue with the old Jumbo size, which, to my eyes, appears to be bigger than the GO.

Taylor are an American company. One thing many American companies recognise is that everything targeted at the consumer should always be bigger, whether it be Big Macs or SUVs or Walmart or whatever. They are simply milking the market, which as a for-profit organisation accountable to their shareholders, is what they should be doing. If you're looking for shops that produce guitars that are smaller in size and aren't as large and corporate driven as Taylor, I would suggest Huss & Dalton, Santa Cruz and Froggy Bottom, all who have fantastic smaller bodied guitars a step above Taylors, IMO. Richard Hoover stated in an interview (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22365133/TGN_Demo2_embeded.pdf) that he once spoke to Bob Taylor about why he needed people instead of machines sanding bridges. Bob Taylor replied: "You focus on making the best guitars out there, I'll focus on making the most."

PureTone

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2013, 09:13:23 PM »
... One thing many American companies recognise is that everything targeted at the consumer should always be bigger, whether it be Big Macs or SUVs or Walmart or whatever...
Which would explain the GS Mini perfectly.

Edward

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:30 PM »
But the GO body??  Nothing "classic" about it to me; just a big guitar; and big lookin, not in a nice way to these eyes.  So let's assume that its tone is big, bold, and all that other ad-copy stuff that really does bear itself out.  Great ...hope folks dig it and buy a ton of em.  I am guessing that I won't be one of them ...again, because of the shape.

I don't understand your reservations. On the one hand you are criticising the GO for looking too big, yet you seem to have no issue with the old Jumbo size, which, to my eyes, appears to be bigger than the GO.

Taylor are an American company. One thing many American companies recognise is that everything targeted at the consumer should always be bigger, whether it be Big Macs or SUVs or Walmart or whatever. They are simply milking the market, which as a for-profit organisation accountable to their shareholders, is what they should be doing. If you're looking for shops that produce guitars that are smaller in size and aren't as large and corporate driven as Taylor, I would suggest Huss & Dalton, Santa Cruz and Froggy Bottom, all who have fantastic smaller bodied guitars a step above Taylors, IMO. Richard Hoover stated in an interview (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22365133/TGN_Demo2_embeded.pdf) that he once spoke to Bob Taylor about why he needed people instead of machines sanding bridges. Bob Taylor replied: "You focus on making the best guitars out there, I'll focus on making the most."

I am fully aware that some of my sentiments appear contradictory, like the one on body size that you reference.  I tried to explain, inexpertly to be sure, that I love the jumbo for its size and the voice its size brings to the table, but also for its classic shape/aesthetics: it's the whole package that allures me.  If the GO offfers that wonderful voice that I associate with the jumbo, albeit in an shape that I find wholly unappealing, then for me that fulfills only a part of the goodness equation.

Now as for your 2nd pp, well that's a mixed bag ya got there.  First off, until Taylor comes out with an IPO, it remains wholly a privately owned company that has zero fiduciary obligations to outsiders; shareholders simply don't exist in this discussion.  They "do" out of what they --Bob and Kurt-- feel is best.  Period.  To raise the comparison with publicly-traded companies, IMHO, misses the point entirely.  I "get" what you're trying to say, but I think you misapply principles which, here, simply do not exist.  While the Taylor Co. clearly had sights to be an influential (read "big") guitar maker, there is simply no evidence, either in their products nor customer relations, that I have ever seen/experienced, that they subscribe to what many manufacturers have followed as "bigger is better."  This simply is not how Taylor rolls.  They got "big" by building a better mousetrap, not by offering bigger ones.

Now as for "fantastic smaller bodied guitars a step above Taylors": well as you correctly state, that is indeed your opinion, to which you are entitled.  And to some extent, I may agree as I have played some of these fine instruments.  But again, apples-oranges.  Let's forget about "tone" as a consideration for a moment since that is, of course, totally subjective.  That said, the likes of SC, H&D, et.al. are all small builders whose goal is to intentionally make very few instruments because they attend to details that will yield a finer instrument; likewise, and not surprisingly, they charge substantially more than most every production-line Taylor (clearly excluding Taylor's highest echelon and BTOs).  So comparing so-called "boutique builds" that cost more than production-line Taylors that not only cost less but are readily available across the country to test drive is, at least in my mind, apples and oranges.  OTOH, consider if you will the now-defunct R-Taylor brand: that was aimed squarely at the "boutique" market.  Guess what: RT's hyper attention to details in build, wood, buyer's personal wants, etc. all were top notch ...and likewise, RT's prices were not Taylor-production guitar prices either. ;)  That is one place where one can undeniably find Bob wanting to "build the best."

Not arguing with you at all, by a long shot.  Just offering my perspective on things is all.  :)
Like I said in numerous places, if folks find the GO very attractive, so be it; in large numbers, better still.  I simply lament that Taylor's newest offering does not fulfill what I personally wanted to see in a classic jumbo.

Edward




Daybreakdays

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Re: The Grand Orchestra
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2013, 10:57:23 PM »
Now as for your 2nd pp, well that's a mixed bag ya got there.  First off, until Taylor comes out with an IPO, it remains wholly a privately owned company that has zero fiduciary obligations to outsiders; shareholders simply don't exist in this discussion.

My misunderstanding, thank you for the correction.