Author Topic: Durability  (Read 12670 times)

lutehole

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Durability
« on: April 26, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »
Is Taylor's satin finish thicker or its gloss finish thicker?
What's the thickness of each finish approx?

Herb Hunter

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Re: Durability
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 06:50:16 PM »
Is Taylor's satin finish thicker or its gloss finish thicker?
What's the thickness of each finish approx?


The gloss finish is thicker.


I think the goal is to make the finish as thin as possible to reduce its damping effect so older guitars might have a thicker finish than the newest ones. I don't know for certain.

Edward

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Re: Durability
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 07:14:57 PM »
With deference to Herb, I am not sure the gloss is, in fact, thicker.  Someone got a spec or factory word on this?  From what I figure (a reasoned guess, admittedly), the satin is identical in every respect to the gloss with the simple deletion of the the labor involved with buffing to a gloss.  Simple: it's a cost cutter.  Further, I have never heard nor read anywhere that it is more thinly-applied than the gloss finish. 

What I do recall reading long ago, though, is that since Taylor brought in the "robo-sprayer" Bob mentioned the finish got thinner (arguably better for tone since there is less "stuff" to hamper the soundboard's movement), was more evenly applied, and resulted in far less airborn loss/waste.  I can't recall when robo-sprayer came in but my failing memory says somewhere around 2000(?). 

Frankly, I wouldn't waste a moment's thought on which is better in terms of thickness/durability ...for taylor's guitars, that is.  It's a simple preference, really.  While gloss represents a more "finished" guitar to the marketplace, there are those who say they like the satin.  As for which will "hold up" better, I'd say it's irrelevant for all practical purposes of normal use/wear.

Edward
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 07:18:48 PM by Edward »

cjd-player

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Re: Durability
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 08:28:11 PM »
Buffing a finish will reduce the thickness ever so slightly.  So it could be that a gloss finish is applied slightly thicker to allow for the loss during buffing.

But I do not know the final thickness of either finish.
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Steve

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Re: Durability
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 11:43:37 PM »
I first started selling Taylors in September of 2001. I stopped selling them in February of 2012.

In those ten years and five months, I never needed to know the thickness of finishes. I'd be willing to bet that very few people know the actual thicknesses and, quite honestly, I don't think it matters an iota.

Essentially, it isn't a question which is likely going to be answered on an internet forum. A call to Taylor would be the way to go...
No one has ever been on their death-bed wishing they'd been more practical...

michaelw

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Re: Durability
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 01:49:21 AM »
Is Taylor's satin finish thicker or its gloss finish thicker?
What's the thickness of each finish approx?
short of calling Taylor's customer service, it'd be impossible to know for certain, imho
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/finish

the difference between the gloss & satin finish is the 2nd coat -
electrostatically applied UV cured polyester, rubbed out & robotically buffed to gloss vs
a hand-sprayed 2 part (resin & hardener) polyurethane finish that is left alone (satin)

i would venture to guess that in the end, the gloss finish could  be thinner, as
both coats of polyester are electrostatically applied & then rubbed out & buffed -
in terms of durability, i've seen more satin guitars than gloss showing
signs of finish lifting, if they were subjected to bumps, nicks or scrapes

ultimately, the thinnest finish could  very well be varnish, if applied to open-pore wood


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Herb Hunter

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Re: Durability
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 07:37:12 AM »

With deference to Herb, I am not sure the gloss is, in fact, thicker. 


I said it was thicker on the basis of a conversation I had with Bob Taylor about finishes in 2004. The Taylors that are made wth using varnish have the thinest finish.




Edited to correct typographic mistake
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 07:44:34 AM by Herb Hunter »

lutehole

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Re: Durability
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 02:29:55 PM »
Is Taylor's satin finish thicker or its gloss finish thicker?
What's the thickness of each finish approx?
short of calling Taylor's customer service, it'd be impossible to know for certain, imho
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/finish

the difference between the gloss & satin finish is the 2nd coat -
electrostatically applied UV cured polyester, rubbed out & robotically buffed to gloss vs
a hand-sprayed 2 part (resin & hardener) polyurethane finish that is left alone (satin)

i would venture to guess that in the end, the gloss finish could  be thinner, as
both coats of polyester are electrostatically applied & then rubbed out & buffed -
in terms of durability, i've seen more satin guitars than gloss showing
signs of finish lifting, if they were subjected to bumps, nicks or scrapes

ultimately, the thinnest finish could  very well be varnish, if applied to open-pore wood

Thanks to all who replied my messages.
I also looked at the Taylor website and it says the satin finish has a different 2nd coat; it is a resin and hardener whereas the gloss uses another coat of uv cured polyester; I've no idea what a resin is but it seems as though the satin finish could be stronger were the gloss finish the same thickness as it.

cigarfan

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Re: Durability
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 03:17:19 PM »
Is Taylor's satin finish thicker or its gloss finish thicker?
What's the thickness of each finish approx?
short of calling Taylor's customer service, it'd be impossible to know for certain, imho
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/finish

the difference between the gloss & satin finish is the 2nd coat -
electrostatically applied UV cured polyester, rubbed out & robotically buffed to gloss vs
a hand-sprayed 2 part (resin & hardener) polyurethane finish that is left alone (satin)

i would venture to guess that in the end, the gloss finish could  be thinner, as
both coats of polyester are electrostatically applied & then rubbed out & buffed -
in terms of durability, i've seen more satin guitars than gloss showing
signs of finish lifting, if they were subjected to bumps, nicks or scrapes

ultimately, the thinnest finish could  very well be varnish, if applied to open-pore wood

Thanks to all who replied my messages.
I also looked at the Taylor website and it says the satin finish has a different 2nd coat; it is a resin and hardener whereas the gloss uses another coat of uv cured polyester; I've no idea what a resin is but it seems as though the satin finish could be stronger were the gloss finish the same thickness as it.

lutehole: Could you clue us in on why you are so interested in the finish thickness?
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lutehole

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Re: Durability
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 04:23:26 PM »
lutehole: Could you clue us in on why you are so interested in the finish thickness?
I want to compare the durabilities of both models. The perception is that satin is less durable but i wanted to hear what others have to say since i've never owned a satin model. I heard that the satin finish has come off before, a rare case.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 04:26:07 PM by lutehole »

Satsuki

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Re: Durability
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 04:25:49 PM »
I feel like I read an episode of "Myth busters"

Steve

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Re: Durability
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 04:56:18 PM »
I've had a 314 for ten years.

The top is gloss, the back and sides are satin.

There are zero finish issues.

I've never heard of the satin finish "coming off", and I'm willing to bet that I've seen more satin Taylors than all other 630 members here combined.

It doesn't happen...
No one has ever been on their death-bed wishing they'd been more practical...

Steve

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Re: Durability
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 04:57:10 PM »
The perception is that satin is less durable...

Whose perception is that?
No one has ever been on their death-bed wishing they'd been more practical...

lutehole

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Re: Durability
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 04:59:01 PM »
I've had a 314 for ten years.

The top is gloss, the back and sides are satin.

There are zero finish issues.

I've never heard of the satin finish "coming off", and I'm willing to bet that I've seen more satin Taylors than all other 630 members here combined.

It doesn't happen...

Good to know it is in perfect shape.
Taylor says that the satin finish has a resin + hardener for it's 2nd/final coat. I don't know the reactions but it must be something like that superglue which is mixed together before application.

Steve

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Re: Durability
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 05:10:28 PM »
Yes, I'm sure it's just like Super Glue...
No one has ever been on their death-bed wishing they'd been more practical...