814CE and 914CE Strumming Question

[Glen]

I have seen many threads where the 814CE is the jack knife of Taylors (I agree) and a better strummer than the 914.  Why would the 814CE be a better strummer than the 914CE?  The only difference between the two sonically is bone nut and saddle and perhaps pickguard (some would argue otherwise).  Yes, better tone woods on 914 but I have played 814's that sounded better to my ear than 914's and vice versa, so it is really subjective.  Of course the 914 LOOKS to be a more suited for finger style due to the elegant appointments.  However, same size, same shape, same CV bracing. Is there a difference in scallop bracing? Can someone please elighten me?

[DennisG]

I think people refer to the 814 as "the Swiss Army knife" of guitars, the allusion of the knife's many varied tools analogous to the variety of playing styles the 814 can handle.  But in the years I've been on guitar forums, I've never heard anyone say that the 814 is a better strummer than the 914, and there's no reason it should be.  From the A/B tests I've done (and witnessed), it's virtually impossible to even distinguish the two guitars from each other.

[Herb Hunter]

There is no significant difference between the 814 and the current 914 that would make one better suited than the other for strumming or any other style of playing. Years ago, the 914 had an Engelmann spruce top instead of the sitka spruce used on the 814 which may have prompted some folks to conclude that the 814 would be better suited for strumming (perhaps the had a Richie Haven style in mind). When very high quality Engelmann spruce became scarce, Taylor switched to sitka spruce for the 900 series.

[Iplay2]

Years ago, the 914 had an Engelmann spruce top instead of the sitka spruce used on the 814 which may have prompted some folks to conclude that the 814 would be better suited for strumming (perhaps the had a Richie Haven style in mind). When very high quality Engelmann spruce became scarce, Taylor switched to sitka spruce for the 900 series.

That is the only thing I could think of as well, though even then it isn't much of an issue.  I think Engelmann strums as well as sitka unless you are beating the out of it. 

[Steve]

Actually, the X14 body size is what's commonly referred to as the "Swiss Army knife", not the 814ce specifically...

[Glen]

I think people refer to the 814 as "the Swiss Army knife" of guitars, the allusion of the knife's many varied tools analogous to the variety of playing styles the 814 can handle.  But in the years I've been on guitar forums, I've never heard anyone say that the 814 is a better strummer than the 914, and there's no reason it should be.  From the A/B tests I've done (and witnessed), it's virtually impossible to even distinguish the two guitars from each other.

Sorry.... Brain Fade... Yes, Swiss Army Knife! LOL

[dcopper]

You really have to play both guitars. I recently did an in-depth comparison of the 814ce and 914ce, so that post may help. Either guitar are excellent for strumming. The bone nut and saddle made a sonic difference in the two guitars that I compared.  I like the clarity and articulation of the tusq nut and saddle on the 814ce. The bone nut and saddle gave the guitar more low mids and a touch more bottom end. The highs were still there but not as discernable as with the 814ce.
I had selected the 914ce but was missing that Taylor tone I had become so accustomed to with the 814ce. Lo and behold, the Spring LTD coco came out and I bought it right away - it gave me the whole package.
For simple strumming, chord work and whatever you can throw at it - either the 814ce or the 914ce will do serve you well.
It is going to come down to what you personally hear and the dynamics with which you play. It was a hard choice, but since I have no buyer's remorse, the right one for me.
go give them a try!
davidc

[Glen]

What initiated my post is I just read a 814 vs 914 thread and a poster wrote that the 914 is better for finger style.  I had read that a few times over the years and really couldn't understand why. Maybe at one time the bracing pattern or as another poster here suggested the Engleman top which is sonically between sitka and cedar by most accounts. You all are confirming what I suspected.  In reality, the 914 just has nicer appointments if comparing 2011 or 12 models and both would do equally well whatever style of music.  In other words.... The SWISS ARMY KNIFE of guitars! 

[Glen]

You really have to play both guitars. I recently did an in-depth comparison of the 814ce and 914ce, so that post may help. Either guitar are excellent for strumming. The bone nut and saddle made a sonic difference in the two guitars that I compared.  I like the clarity and articulation of the tusq nut and saddle on the 814ce. The bone nut and saddle gave the guitar more low mids and a touch more bottom end. The highs were still there but not as discernable as with the 814ce.
I had selected the 914ce but was missing that Taylor tone I had become so accustomed to with the 814ce. Lo and behold, the Spring LTD coco came out and I bought it right away - it gave me the whole package.
For simple strumming, chord work and whatever you can throw at it - either the 814ce or the 914ce will do serve you well.
It is going to come down to what you personally hear and the dynamics with which you play. It was a hard choice, but since I have no buyer's remorse, the right one for me.
go give them a try!
davidc

Interesting.. Your post got me going reading other threads which made me run across the "914 finger style" post and prompted my post.... So you are the instigator! LOL   Nice review.... Thanks for taking time to write it.

[Edward]

I do not think the engelmann difference is a slight one.  To me, engelmann vs. spruce makes a marked difference in tone ...not so much headroom (of which I am skeptical that there is even such a thing in acoustic guitars), but overall timbre of the guitar.   An 8-series compared with 9, all else being equal apart from the bling, yes will be as similar as two identical builds can be, especially if you order the 8 with bone nut/saddle.  But throw in an engel top and the voice changes substantially.  Now which is "better" I'll leave to personal opinion, but these two spruce species are different enough that it bears consideration, IMHO.

Edward

[Edward]

What initiated my post is I just read a 814 vs 914 thread and a poster wrote that the 914 is better for finger style.  I had read that a few times over the years and really couldn't understand why....

Sorry, just caught this specific point. 
Engelmann to me seems to be a more touch-sensitive tone wood, as if lighter player's dynamics yield more tonal girth or occupy more "space" from the guitar.  Don't confuse this with volume; different story there.  But engel seems warmer, thicker-toned, especially in the treble strings, than sitka which tends to be thinner, brighter, and "zingy" in its timbre.   Even the bass notes have more glassiness around them where on an engelmann-topped guit the bass notes seem more "solid" and round, as if someone attenuated just the very top end of the highs ...think "presence" knob on an amp, or the 10-12K on a GEQ.   So for fingerstylists, the engel tends to get the nod.

FWIW, I am no fingerstylist by a longshot, but as one who loves the warmth and tonal girth of cedar, I very much welcome what engelmann brings to the table.  Again FWIW, I have a GC-sized body with an engel top that has deep round lows, but well-defined mids and crisp, but not jingly, highs.  This suits me right on.  By contrast, I had a GS8 that was so mid-scooped, with big bass and glassy top end, I just coudn't bond.  Different from a GA8/814, mind you, but you get the idea.  Play an engel-topped guit and you'll know immediately whether the voice is for you.  It's a more subtle difference than between cedar vs spruce, but it's analagous in my mind.

Edward

[Herb Hunter]

Having replaced the Tusq nut and saddle of my 814 with bone, I'm inclined to believe that the timbre differences between a 914 and an 814 have as much to do source of the difference between one 814 and another 814 as it does with the differences bone and nut impose on tone.

[michaelw]

as of 2007, the standard top on the 914ce has been sitka, unless the
guitar was a 'modify-a-model' with engelmann 'top-swap' or if it is
a 01-06 model (the 96-00 914c had a standard englemann top also)

bone nut & wave compensated saddle & gotoh 21:1 tuners were added in 07,
sitka CV bracing was phased-in in 09 (on the 814ce as well) & in early 10,
the current iteration of ES (9V, discrete pre-amp & single body sensor)

typically, the woods on the 900 usually have a higher aesthetic grade -
tighter-grain top with more 'silking' (medullary rays) & darker, more
tightly-grained rosewood (sometimes with black, purple & green variegation)

whether or not this gives the 914ce a 'smoother', more balanced response,
with less pronounced 'snap' than a 814ce depends on the examples being
played, but more importantly, imho, the player (style, attack, technique)

the 6 string GA models have always had scalloped bracing, with the
Standard II forward-shifted pattern & relief rout being phased-in
around the fall of 04 on 500/up & in the fall of 06 on 300/400s -
from what i've heard, the CV bracing was adapted from the RT Style 2,
with more narrow, but taller, more-deeply scalloped bracing than
the Standard II & it tends to add 'richness' to a guitar's tone,
which may  be more noticeable in a model with rosewood back & sides

that being said, i am extremely impressed with the tone & response
of the current 714ce engelmann & to my ear the 12 models have much
more depth, warmth (especially in the mid bass), projection & clarity
than the Fall 06 714ceLTD engelmann ... same body size, same bracing
pattern, same woods, but with the 12 having a scarfjoint headstock

i can't help but wonder what adi CV brings to the table on an engelmann/rosewood GA
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1111190106.php?CategoryID=84&n=3

i've played sitka/maple & sitka/cocobolo models with adi CV, which to me seems to add a bit
of 'presence' overall in that individual notes seemed to be more defined, almost 'enveloped' -
with rosewood, i imagine the increase in resonance could  make more of a difference & with an
engelmann top, that could 'mellow' the tone enough so that the guitar may sound like it's
already been played-in for a few years, even though it could  be 'straight-out-of-the-box'

adi CV could  also provide a bit more 'headroom', especially with woods such as engelmann or cedar

when it comes to using a heavier pick (0.88mm), the 12 814ce sounded 'flabby' to me,
whereas the 11 Fall GAceLTD cocobolo with bone nut & saddle was still very defined &
balanced, especially in the mids & i think the 914ce could have this advantage also

bone, being a natural material, will have variances in density (as will spruce, rosewood, mahogany & ebony) &
unless all of the bone used for the saddles & nuts is tested (sonically or other) to ensure the density throughout
each piece is consistent, or at least within a rather consistent range, there may  or may not  be as much of a perceived
difference over a synthetic material, such as Tusq - Graph Tech also makes NuBone saddles & nuts & Fossilite (oem)

i have been thinking about removing the saddle from a GS Mini & trying it in place of a Tusq saddle
to see if there might be a perceptible difference in tone &, imho, the most accurate way to do it
would be to use fresh strings each time (which is not particularly economical with coated strings)

out of 4 guitars ( 2 814s & 2 914s), there may be an 814 that sounds 'better' than the other 8 &
a 914 that sounds 'better' than the other 9, but it does not necessarily mean that the 'best'
sounding 914 will sound 'better' than the 'best' 814, or that 914-2 will sound 'better' than 814-2 ...

of course, there is always the possibility that the next 'one' may not be either a 814 or 914

ymmv

[Redwood Tree]

I've had too many 8 and 9 seires Talyor's to count now. And I have to say , to my ear... I've never had a 814 that was the same as a 900.  The 900 wins every time. True. the 2008 GAce Fall Coco with adi braced sitka top Is a 900 and It to sounds very nice. Just so clear. I'd get engelmann on a new 900 foresure

[dcopper]

Herb, I could not agree with you more. Since you replaced your tusq nut and saddle, you have that first hand knowledge of comparing an 814ce bone with a 914ce bone. I have waited until I found an 814ce or 914ce that really was the whole package- thought I found it in a 914ce until the 12 Spring LTD coco I just bought instead. There is no question that there can be a variance among 814s as well as among 914s. Some posters who replaced their tusq nut/saddle on an 814 with bone went back to tusq because they missed the articulation of tusq. Some even complained of "muddy" tone with bone. Bone is less consistent but the 914ce I had in my possession to try out for a while was an amazing guitar. I just preferred the cocobolo in the end (if there ever is an end....).
davidc