Checking intonation?

[Jannie]

I thought I knew, then I read up on it some and tell me if this is right. I tuned up my guitar very carefully using my Polytune app in my iPhone which I find works most precisely in the stream mode and agrees perfectly with my KORG CA30. I also have one of the new black Snarks which is nice but leaves a lot of room to play when it says it's dead on and I have another app called Cleartune which is usually flat and sounds that way even though it isn't by much.

So to my ears and to my Polytune I had it tuned very nicely. Then I carefull went up the scale on every string, pressing just hard enough barely behind each fret on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 12th frets and every one of them is dead on, from reading I only had to check the 12th but I learned that that can sometimes not tell every thing. Anyway My GC3 to this method is absolutely spot on.

Is this correct? Is there more I need to know, need to check.

This was instigated by a conversation I had with a very good folk street musician today who's music I really admired and we had gotten to talking. He mentioned that if a guitar has very good intonation, any guitar, then you can work with it and find your way, without that you'll always struggle, it sounded logical to me.

[Go Navy]

Interesting post.   I've always felt that if it is dead on at the 12th, it's good. Your approach is much more thorough, though.

[S MS Picker]

You're very fortunate indeed. Never sell that guitar. I've checked hundreds and haven't found one of any kind that's dead on @ every note.Congratulations!!
Steve

[Jannie]

Wow, really! that makes me feel really good, especially that I was so careful to be precise. I didn't do every note but did do the ones as I said on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 12th frets, all strings. When I bought the guitar, I had bought another and decided to take it back, a friend who's a singer songwriter and plays a maple 600 series, 1994 offered to come with me. We spent about 3 or 4 hours in a room with a whole bunch of guitars that I might consider and we even asked if they had another GC3 when it was getting down to this being the one. All the guitars I was trying were either Sapele or Ovangkol back and sides with spruce tops. My friend checked the intonation by ear, playing every single note on every single guitar that was up for consideration, then he'd look down the neck, kind of like running a micrometer all over the things, I found it fascinating, but first it would be play, play, play with the intention of finding something that worked best with my hearing and was the best I could get for what money I had. When I felt it was that one particular GC3, the first one I tried that I wanted, he agreed completely and for some of the reasons I didn't at that time yet understand, like how it was setup etc.

It's not a fancy guitar, compared to the Classical I was selling to get it, it is really plain Jane and I was hoping for as much playing quality as I could get but realized it was near the bottom of the line. It's nice looking though, and the Taylor lines visually are wonderful, the Sapele with the matte finish looks like a rich oiled piece of very lovely wood, with seemingly more character visually than regular mahogany. I like it.

So I've fussed over it though, trying a different set of strings about every week, a new E. Ivory Bob Colosi saddle and I'm back to Elixir Light Nanoweb but Phosphor Bronze strings 12-53 which is the size and tension that it came with from the factory. It's play, play, play every day, the same tunes over and over as I learn now to play with a pick, I think I'm going to really get settled in with  using a pick, even if I end up with a 12 fret, that way I'll feel good about doing both pick and fingerstyle I suppose. I started playing with a pick because the steel string guitars are a little dimmer in my hearing compared to a classical, with the exception of the 12 fret Martin 00-28VS I've played, that has plenty of rich sound for my ears and yes I wear aides but have to have the right one turned off when I play, the stereo affect doesn't balance right with both on.

Anyway I'm doubly happy, partly because of feeling my guitar is just maybe one notch better in my eyes and ears and because a couple of hours ago I found an iPhone in a fancy case laying on the pavement unharmed and managed to find the very estatic owner Yay. A good day huh!

[Jannie]

Um , guess I was excited...

[Jannie]

It makes me feel a little like my guitar is a little bit special and well, that makes me feel good.

[Cindy]

It's unusual to find a guitar that is spot on at every fret. As your frets wear down, I imagine the intonation should change. I'm tyring to think of what I've heard in the past..something like the further down that you have to press your string, the sharper the intonation (or is it flatter?) Congrats on having a guitar with such precise intonation!

[ataylor]

The quick method is to play "Blackbird"

[Roseadi]

I've found nearly all Taylors to have very good intonation, and very good setups from the factory. Most of my problems with intonation have come from worn strings or worn frets. A high action can cause strings to go sharp as well. Moral of the story is to make sure your guitar is set up properly and have well maintained strings.

BTW, not sure how playing every note on every string is necessary to check intonation. Not a bad idea, but checking at the 12th fret should be sufficient. If it's not right at the 12th fret, it won't be right anywhere else.  (of course, by design, guitars are never perfectly intonated!) BUT, checking each string at each fret will let you know if you have wolf notes happening! Changing a saddle could have a big impact on intonation also. But I see you purchased a great saddle when you got yours from Bob Colosi. He's the man!

On another note: You say you've been changing strings every week. Unless you have very acidic hands, the strings may not be fully broken before you change them. Strings should last from one, to several months and their tone will change quite a bit. I look for that plateau once the've settled in, focus on the tone and how well that tone holds up over time. Most strings, to my ear, get better after a couple of days to a week, then settle in for the longer haul. I've only had one set of strings that I took off immediatley because I knew they were not the sound that I was looking for, but have found many strings I liked after they setteld in.

Congrats on your new guitar! Sounds like you got a good one! But give those strings a chance!

[Jannie]

My reasons for changing was that I was loving everything about the guitar except kept wanting something fuller in the sound, it was the best of everything I tried but I am so used to the rich warmth and clarity of my classical and being new to steel strings just made everything sound tighter and thinner from my GC3, and I had hoped it would open up over time and that I could find the right combination of strings, pick, saddle etc.

Before ordering the Bob Colosi saddle I had the neck set up at 6/64 and 4 64ths with I think it was .006 relief- that was very new to me but I studied a lot and asked questions. It played very comfortably and I had checked the intonation just at the 12th fret at that time and it was good but wanted to tame the chill out of the high E and B strings. He asked. That I send the factory saddle and suggested a legal Elephant Ivory saddle ehich I received in a week. He made it a nano oversize and with 400 & 600 grit emery paper and about an hour I had a perfect fit and now something else has happened which relates to your comment.

I've had a set of Elixer PB Lights on it for a little over a week, and have been playing with a pick these last three weeks which means a lot more volume than my nail less finger picking. Last night I stopped in the middle of practice because quite frankly this thing sounds really great. I don't know if it's possible for a guitar to open up this soon? My Koa Tenor ukes took at least a year and my GC3 was made last September and I've had it maybe a month and a half.

Maybe it's the strings settling in, maybe it's the Blue Chip pick, maybe I've improved, and maybe it's opened up or all of the above but I went from like to love and just sat there staring at my guitar as though there was a shaft of light coming through the window bringing attention to what I hadn't been noticing until that moment.

This morning I tentatively picked it up hoping I would have the same experience and I did- this is great- I still want a 12 fret but this is a keeper.

Playing around I got to wondering if it would be interesting to put med-light strings on it but not tune it down a half step as someone suggested. When I have it setup in the way I mentioned above, there was barely any difference pressure wise on the fingers between custom lights and lights- yes I like to fiddle but once there I settle in and generally stop the fiddling completely. It makes the instrument very personal. There is plenty of warmth now but just curious as to what the projection and tone would be with med- light Elixir PB's- and if they will fit the nut slots and have good intonation.

It's raining, I'm writing this on my iPhone and can only play my guitar a little twice a day because my body's all beat up and hurting from too much practice.

[Roseadi]

Jannie, you're in heady company with a Blue Chip!

Now that your guitar has got a nice set up, sounds like you're set to go! Down the road if you still feel the need for more warmth, you might want to look at some round core strings in PB. They are somewhat mellower and less tension than standard hex core strings. I really like Newtone MC. But strings are sooo guitar specific!

As far as guitars opening up, that's a pretty controversial topic! I'm in the camp that they do, but over time - like years. I'm also in the camp that believes guitars can warm up at each sitting (not the tone thing - but open up, feel looser etc), and a well broken in guitar usually seems to take less time to warm up. Again very controversial. I've got a Lowden with an adirondack top that made me a believer in this - HaHa.