2012 814ce EIR vs. 2012 814ce-LTD Cocobolo

[Fire]

What would be the pros and cons of each tonewood stacked up against each other? Insights much appreciated.

[cjd-player]

Although this Taylor chart is a generalization, and the top and bracing will certainly make a contribution, with two identical 814 bodies and bracing this chart will give you the general direction.  Cocobolo can certainly be more vibrant in color. 
In my own experience with guitars I've played in stores, cocobolo dose not have the low bass of rosewood, and is brighter on the top end.  For me, it has always been too bright compared to rosewood.  So my limited experiences match the chart.  Others may feel differently.

[michaelw]

What would be the pros and cons of each tonewood stacked up against each other? Insights much appreciated.

hi Fire,
i notice that you have a GA & GS sitka/rosewood with sitka CV bracing in your sig -
i was curious what you like about the tonal qualities & differences in each guitar, what you feel
may be lacking & what you would like to hear, in terms of either contrasting or complementary tone

also, does your playing style consist of more strumming (heavier or thinner gauge pick) or fingerstyle
(nails or bare fingertips) & if you are looking for a more responsive guitar or a bolder, more assertive voice

the 12 spring 814ceLTD sitka/cocobolo has sitka CV bracing, whereas the 11 Fall GAceLTD - C(oco)
adds a bone nut & saddle, as does the 09 Fall GAceLTD - C (with adi CV) & the 08 Fall GAceLTD - C

the most recent cocobolo models i've played seem  to have more balance, definition & clarity,
which is a good more bit more evident when strumming with a heavier pick, with the adi CV &
bone nut/saddle adding some warmth which 'envelopes' the individual notes (mids especially) &
a quicker. snappier, more articulate & 'detailed' response overall - i have a couple of older
sitka/rosewood X10s that are 'lifers' for me, but i'm also leaning strongly towards a GS coco adi CV

[Fire]

Thanks for the feedback michaelw.

My playing style is roughly 50% fingerpicking and 50% light to medium strumming with a thin pick. I’ve only been playing for about 4 years so my experience level pales in comparison to most of the folks here.

I’m not really good at describing individual guitar tones but in reference to other guitars, that I could. For example, my 416ce-LTD EIR compared to the 814ce is deeper, bassier, has more volume, and gets the “wow” factor from anyone listening. But I find the 814ce clearer and having more balance especially when playing individual notes. Overall, the 814ce is easier to play owing to the light strings and smaller body.

The 416ce-LTD tends to be overwhelming sometimes. A month ago, I brought it with me to a local GC to demo an amplifier. I got the chance to A/B the 416ce-LTD with the Martin PA series guitars and it wasn’t even a contest. Acoustically, this bad boy could run with the big dogs Martin has to offer on the wall that day including an HD-28 and a D-35.   Anyways… back to Cocobolo…

Just like everyone else, I find myself lusting for other guitars more often than not… perpetually in search for the next guitar. For the longest time, I’ve had my eyes set on Koa. Yet I still haven’t played one that I like tonally, so I haven’t taken the Koa plunge. A guitar has to sound good not just look good.

This is where Cocobolo comes in. I’ve heard many good things about it and I’m dying to play one. It’s one of two woods (the other being Macassar Ebony) I haven’t played on cjd’s wood chart. Thanks by the way for supplying the reference and for the accompanying feedback. One caveat that I read somewhere (not sure if W&S or AGF) is that cocobolo tends to be prone to cracking owing to the heavier density.

[DennisG]

Fire,

The cracking issue is an old one that has since been remedied by luthiers who have finally figured out how to work with it.  The cracking occurred during the building phase, anyway, not during the ownership phase.

I realize that evangelism from the owner of a particular guitar isn't usually regarded as objective, but I'll say it anyway:  cocobolo is a spectacular tone wood -- and I've yet to find a top wood that doesn't work well with it.  I feel lucky every time I take my coco 12-fret out of the case, gawk at the woods, and then start playing it.

[michaelw]

hi Fire,
a sitka/coco GA with sitka CV & Tusq nut & saddle is
a combination i have not been able to 'test drive' yet

i've tried or owned these combinations in the past -
cedar/coco GA pre-Standard II Tusq
sitka/coco GA pre-Standard II Tusq
engelmann/coco GA pre-Standard II Tusq
sitka/coco DN Standard II Tusq
adi/coco GA (perhaps adi CV )
sitka/coco GS adi CV, bone
sitka/coco GA sitka CV bone

out of all of them, the adi/coco GA stood out the most, tonally, to me, as it
had a very quick, punchy attack, great definition & very-well rounded mids

the most recent sitka/coco GA with sitka CV & bone nut/saddle
i tried, seemed to respond better with a heavier pick & compared
to an 814ce, i prefered the tone of the coco GA with a heavier pick
over the tone of the 814ce with a lighter pick, as i felt the coco was
more articulate & 'detailed', with more dynamic definition overall

i was also able to play a 12 714ce engelmann Standard II &
to my ear it was 'the winner' when compared to the 814ce using
a light pick, light to medium strumming & when played fingerstyle -
greater warmth & more responsive, with a smoother overall tone overall

on that 'note', a combination that is intrigues
me very much is an engelmann top, adi CV & rosewood
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1111190106.php?CategoryID=122&n=27

depending on the tonal contrast/characteristics that you are seeking,
i believe that  a guitar with the same top & bracing (wood & pattern)
with different back & sides may make less of a difference than one
with a different top & bracing (woods) & the same back & sides

cocobolo is a rosewood & more dense & heavier than eirw, thus the build process required that
it be thinner in order to bend the sides & so that there is not excessive 'dampening' from the back -
early models (01 especially) may  have been more prone to cracking, which was partially due to
the seasoning process & partially due to humidity not as being closely monitored once the finished
guitar was received by the owner(s), but i've seen/heard of very few issues with models made
after that, especially when it is taken in consideration the number of cocobolo Taylors made

ymmv