An Interesting Video Looks at the 4 Biggest Objections to Taylor Guitars

[beachbum205]

Not sure if anyone has seen this video, but I found it to be a fairly objective and well thought-out response to some common objections that some people have to Taylor Guitars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWtmEVgFZg

Be interested to hear what others think about this.
-Jack

[PaulWood]

It's an interesting video, thanks for highlighting it.

My main interest was the comments on pick-ups, having myself been completely turned off by my ES2 experiences. On this subject, I thought the presenter was fairly superficial in his treatment of the subject in that he glossed over the ES1 period, with no mention of the changes made by Taylor before moving (disastrously in my humble opinion) to ES2.

My first Taylor, a 614ce, boasted the original RS (AA batteries) and did provide a bright sound. I'd graduated from Ovation, so I found this brightness very attractive, as did many of my musician friends. the only problem I experienced, which was mentioned by the presenter of the review, was the AA batteries and the battery compartment, which I had to have cleaned and then replaced. The move to ES2/3 solved one problem but caused another, in that the carrier was too small for available 9v batteries - as a UK resident, I had to order batteries from the US, which, in the early days, were slightly smaller than those available in Europe. The move away from the original ES pick-up also resulted in a reduction in brightness, but I still found it an attractive proposition.

I had the misfortune to replace ES with ES2 on my 614ce many years ago. It's subjective, I know, but that guitar has been in it's case ever since then. I've tried it a few times but it just doesn't pass muster and it will never be appreciated by me. What are the problems? Complete lack of any 'character' in the tones available and over-amplification of physical contact sounds (like touching the body of the guitar while finger-picking).I tried to sell it on - it was in the local (Taylor approved) guitar shop for a year or more with not one offer in all that time. Judging from the posts on this forum over the years, ES2 has been a disaster for many Taylor fans, or should I say 'ex-fans', but it doesn't appear to have done their business any great harm - so maybe I'm wrong??!!

I hope this post is helpful but all I can say is that I own 5 Taylors now but won't be buying any more.

[Earl]

I hope this post is helpful but all I can say is that I own 5 Taylors now but won't be buying any more.

Ditto!  I have owned ten Taylor guitars over the years, and now down to only one, an all koa 424 LTD with with ES1.3.  My last new purchase was fall 2014 and that was a 615 as NOS.  Love the necks and build quality, love the build innovation, but the pickups -- meh after ES1.3.  I simply cannot trust the ES2 system, plus I no longer gig so don't even need a pickup.  And if I did, there are already guitars on hand with functional electronics.  There might be some temptation to purchase a new model like the GP if all models weren't infested with ES2 electronics -- the bed bugs of the acoustic guitar world.

I do not wish them ill, but Taylor clearly has turned away from my needs and desires.  It's not clear who has outgrown whom.   

[jpmist]

I hope this post is helpful but all I can say is that I own 5 Taylors now but won't be buying any more.

That's a shame cause Taylors are nice guitars! You certainly don't need an internet stranger weighing in on your choices, but for me, the pickup has never been a factor in buying. Mainly because once you buy a guitar, you're frozen in time with that year's progress in pickup technology forever.

My take is that guitar pickups will never rise to the level of a decent mic system for recording, but is a necessary evil for performing. To stay on the leading edge of pickup tech I'd research the 3rd party pickup shops who compete heavily with each other for the best, most realistic acoustic guitar sound. You're clearly unhappy with yours, but I wonder if you'd consider pickups made by LR Baggs, K&K and Fishman and others?

[Earl]

Good point, JP.  You are locked in to that pickup technology forever once the purchase is made.  At least you are with ES2, where there are three holes drilled through the bridge for the adjustment screws.  I wonder what happens when you someday have to replace it and Taylor has abandoned the system?  That is my real objection to the design, apart from any performance issues.  I had that happen with my T5 Classic, where they had switched out the board and wiring harness after my model year.  When it got scratchy volume pots  the only choice was about $200 for a whole new system (plus installation).  All it really needed was a new $10-15 volume potentiometer (which I could install) but that wasn't possible.  If I ever were to buy another Taylor it would be in spite of - not because of -- the electronics.

I have had good luck with Fishman and LR Baggs barn door systems, which can be upgraded or replaced.  But I realize that some folks just don't like barn doors.  My best sounding stage guitar is a Rainsong WS-1000 with a Fishman Blender on board.  Dialed to 30% pickup and 70% mic it sounds great through any board, and I have recorded with it.  In high volume rock & roll situations, I can dial it to 100% piezo pickup and get great feedback resistance.

[Edward]

With regard to the video:

1. perceived brightness: poor argument.  Tonal perceptions are just that: opinions.  And opinions based on prior experience which is, more often than not, built by the myriad, countless examples of cheesy imports that seek to emulate that signature shape/tone of the you know what!  Yes, of course, I am excluding guitars of "decent" quality, whatever the marque.  One can "argue" that "lots of folks" feel this way, hence the video's very existence.  Yeah, like saying everyone I know voted for _____ so I just don't get it!  Echo chamber, anyone?  Fact check: Taylor grew to out-produce Martin (what, well over a decade ago) and became a world-wide powerhouse that literally changed the industry.  Like the entire market.  Like forced the hand of the "big boys" such that they had to change their ways if they were to compete at the marketplace.  So no, the "everyone complains" about the brightness is simply self-serving blather that bloggers simply repeat because it's easy, and ignores the sheer numbers of guitars that unequivocally points to folks that want to hear Taylor tone; want it so much that they buy retail!  Which of course, raises another red herring that "every" Taylor has this "too bright" tone going on.  Have these people checked their varied product line at all, let alone try their varied models?

2.  ES: similar to above ...echo chamber effect.  I don't like the ES2.  So what!  I am one guy while the marketplace clearly is fine with it.  Until they are not, in which case Taylor will adjust.  Their ES1.3 is their best, and the mothership will likely have zero support for it if (when!) mine die.  That's always been true of every acoustic pickup on the planet.  The drawback on Taylors is, undeniably, that you have holes in the guit.  Fair point.  And those who have unintrusive systems will clearly fare better in the obsolescence wars, to be sure.  That said, there is already one system today that accommodates the controls holes, and other solutions will arise, I am confident, if only because of the sheer numbers of them out there.  Beside this point, there are plenty who do just fine with ES2 tone live.  I absolutely get "decent" live tone with my ES2 guit, though I vastly prefer my ES1.3 guit, which naturally is my live go-to acoustic.  So until "enough" complain in sufficient numbers such that Taylor sees a direct correlation, bloggers "complaining" means pretty much squat when product is still flying out of showrooms.

3.  "Overengineered"  OK, this is just stupid.  What in blazes does this "overengineered" even mean?  Every company makes changes, attempt innovations, market improvements, etc ...and many fail.  Some succeed.  And the marketplace is, again, the final arbiter.  "New Coke" was a dismal failure.  And Taylor has had their share; no one is immune.  But Taylor absolutely has brought to the table game-changing innovations that turned the marketplace on its head.  Not idle fanboy talk here but fact borne out by the present and their massive presence.  This insignificant, young upstart that dared to go head-to-head against the mainstream beat them all with a better mousetrap.  "Better" one may challenge?!  They went from nuttin to sumptin in a scant few decades so yeah, "better" is a word with merit here.  Are all their "changes" innovations?  Clearly not; their "misses" abound.  But pointing to their failures and ignoring their most obvious successes is myopic, if not wholly self-serving ...again, blogger echoes...

4.  Overpriced.  I said "stupid" above, so this is stupider.  Costs are what they are when products are domestically designed and produced within this nation.  Period ...and duh!  You don't like paying Gibson prices, buy an Epi.  PRS?, get an SE.  No shortage of Squiers to serve the awaiting customers until they "arrive" at Fender's table.  Taylor has a broad swath of products, all of which are made with undeniably high standards of production, but also high standards for its workers.  You don't care for such a mantra, then buy elsewhere.  Easy.  But to complain about a company that unequivocally holds to high standards of production and the workplace is stupid.  OK, I'll be kinder: shortsighted, uninformed, and missing the big picture.  On a personal note, I am grateful that many clearly choose to support this kind of home-grown excellence! 

Disclaimer: I won't buy another Taylor for my own reasons.  I have owned many in the past and sold many over the years for various more reasons, but have five as we speak, three of which are lifers and can go head-to-head with any "boutique" brands, one is easily the best "beater" known to man, and one "Baby Taylor" that is simply fun to grab-n-go.  The company has made changes that I do not agree with.  None of which changes my opinions stated above.  The video offers its opinion; I have provided my own.  And nothing at all aimed at Jack or my fellow forumites! Have fun, all.  Enjoy the fabulous guits and ignore the noise.  The music is lot louder than the noise if you play enough!  Play on, friends! 

Edward