Author Topic: action measurement : on 12th fret or with capo on 13th fret  (Read 3529 times)

sergeko

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Hello,


What would be the "best" way to measure the action ?
Without capo, at the 12th fret, the action on my 312 is 2.25mm, measured with the FretGuru ruler from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string.
With capo at the 13th fret it's 2mm.
The neck relief is almost inexistent.

Taylor 312ce 12-fret V-Class (2019)

Earl

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Re: action measurement : on 12th fret or with capo on 13th fret
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2021, 03:38:08 PM »
The factory specs for Taylor action are:

    neck relief = ~0.007" = 1.78 mm at the mid-length of the capo'ed string
    bass = 6/64" = 0.094" = 2.39 mm, between 12th fret and bottom of bass "E" string
    treble = 4/64" = 0.063" = 1.60 mm, between 12th fret and bottom of treble "e" string

You don't measure the action with a capo on.  The only time to use a capo is when measuring the relief (curvature of the neck).  With a capo on the first fret, you then press down on the 14th fret and measure the gap between string and fret mid-length, around the 7th fret.  Some curvature is desirable to account for the wider arc of string vibration.  Of course, your individual set up requirements may differ.  And remember that if your guitar is outside of those string heights, the proper solution is NOT to sand the bottom of the saddle.  Taylor fixes the neck angle back to spec first by swapping out the shims.  Any sanding of the saddle would then be very minor, only to get that last 1/64" of adjustment that YOU prefer.
Taylors:  424-LTD (all koa) and a 114ce that lives with friends in Alaska.  Low maintenance carbon fiber guitars are my "thing" these days, but I will always keep the koa 424.  Several ukulele and bass guitars too. 
*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

sergeko

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Re: action measurement : on 12th fret or with capo on 13th fret
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2021, 04:24:41 PM »

Thanks !

(but the neck relief of 0.007 inch means 0.1778 mm)

For a player with a light touch, is it ok to lower the action simply by using the truss rod to have a neck that is practically straight ? Or is it "better" to change the neck angle (using other shims) and keep the factory neck relief spec ?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 04:30:53 PM by Serge »
Taylor 312ce 12-fret V-Class (2019)

Earl

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Re: action measurement : on 12th fret or with capo on 13th fret
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2021, 09:29:24 PM »
The truss rod is not used to set the action, which is the height of the saddle relative to the fret board and the depth of the nut slots relative to the first fret.  Can a truss rod adjustment affect the action?  Sure, in a minor way.  Only you can decide if an arrow-straight neck will cause buzzing with your preferred strings and your playing style.  If you strum vigorously, a really flat neck will probably buzz like crazy.  If you are a soft-touch finger picker, you can get away with a lower setup and a straighter neck overall.

If you make an adjustment, just note how many turns you made so it can go easily back to the original condition.  Adjustments should be minor -- one or two quarter turns, usually no more.  And you don't really have to wait overnight to evaluate them - the neck curvature changes immediately.  (It may settle a bit overnight).  I go even finer than quarter turns and use one flat on an Allen wrench (hex key) to get 1/6 turn.  I have seen some big name pro's adjust their truss rod back stage and seemingly every hour during classes at guitar camps.  I cannot feel the difference that closely in my normal play, but they seemingly could. 

I make at most two seasonal truss rod adjustments - one in the fall and one in the spring.  Dry tops will sink, and wet tops will swell.  When I lived in Alaska, despite diligent humidity care efforts I had a taller winter saddle and a shorter summer saddle.  When swapping them out on the shoulder seasons, I *might* make a minimal truss rod change then.  But not often.  Many of my guitars did not need a truss rod adjustment when going from light gauge to medium gauge strings, or when switching between alternate tunings.

Here is a definitive article about setups, written by a highly qualified luthier.  Good luck and hope this helps.
 https://www.charlestauber.com/luthier/Resources_files/BasicGuitarSetup101-Abridged-May%202015.pdf
Taylors:  424-LTD (all koa) and a 114ce that lives with friends in Alaska.  Low maintenance carbon fiber guitars are my "thing" these days, but I will always keep the koa 424.  Several ukulele and bass guitars too. 
*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

sergeko

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Re: action measurement : on 12th fret or with capo on 13th fret
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2021, 04:15:44 AM »
Many thanks for your valuable feedback !


I will read the pdf before asking more questions :-)
Taylor 312ce 12-fret V-Class (2019)