Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Topic started by: roadbiker on January 09, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
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When I bought my Taylor 814ce, I took the display model. It was the one I played and I liked it. I never even thought of asking them to bring me out a new one in the box (wish I did though - lesson learned). I think it's an important consideration (getting an unplayed one, that is) because the length of time that the guitar has been out on display is direclty related to the number of people who have played, which in turn is directly related to the amount of wear on the frets and how dirty the fretboard gets. On the flip-side, the guitar does get "played-in" a bit, which may be beneficial.
Regardless, I am very happy with my new 814ce. A few nights ago I replaced the strings and used the opportunity to clean the fretboard, which was a little dirty from use prior to my purchase, especially on the higher strings up by the nut (as is typical). I'd rather play my guitar with my own grunge rather than grunge from who knows who. Following the procedure shown on the Taylor web-sitevideo, I taped up the soundhole and used very fine steel wool to clean the fretboard. Then I used Planet Waves Hydrate fretboard conditioner, applied with a paper towel, and the fretboad looks like t was never used.
I've never, in 30 years, taken steel wool to my Guild, but you can bet that I am definitely going to on my next string change.
Questions:
- How often do you steel wool your fretboard and treat it with a conditioner?
- What do you use to condition your fretboard?
Jim
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Jim,
I don't remember where you purchased your 814ce, but I doubt that any dealer would have undisplayed Taylor inventory still in the box in the "back room".
I steel wool my fret board about once a year - or less - no fixed schedule. I put just the slightest touch of lemon oil (lemon-scented mineral oil) on the board mainly to help clean off all of the steel wool residue and ebony dust. It will look darker and shinier, but ebony does not need any oil or "conditioner". Contrary to popular finish products marketing - wood does not need to be fed or conditioned. It is quite dead already. From a wood preservation perspective, you really do not need to put anything on it. Any information to the contrary is just marketing by the product suppliers.
The main purpose of putting a surface finish on wood is to keep it from being damaged by water and to slow down moisture transfer - in other words to keep the wood dry so it does not expand. An ebony fret board does not have that kind of finish for that purpose, so anything you put on will evaporate relatively quickly (weeks) and really serves no purpose other than a temporary cosmetic improvement.
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I steel wool my fret board about once a year - or less - no fixed schedule. I put just the slightest touch of lemon oil (lemon-scented mineral oil) on the board mainly to help clean off all of the steel wool residue. It will look darker and shinier, but ebony does not need any oil or "conditioner". It will not dry out and die. From a wood preservation perspective, you really do not need to put anything on it.
I agree with this ^^^. Spot on. Also, think of the fretboard oiling as strictly cosmetic, especially on ebony boards. It looks pretty, but not necessary from a maintenance perspective. In fact, too much oil can wreak havoc on the fretboard.
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With no set schedule, but usually about once a year when changing strings, I clean
the fretboard as needed with 3M 0000 Extra Extra Fine Synthetic Steel Wool
which is available at any hardware store. It does not shed filings or particles as does
the metal steel wool, which is very important if you have any electronics in the guitar.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z4AE/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000BQSY4C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00PTPTTWM3JN2X87TW96
For after cleaning dressing, I use Fret Doctor. After testing many, I feel it is the least
invasive and caustic of the available products.
http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm
One can certainly get overzealous in caring for a guitar so, use care in the use
of fretboard maintenance.
st
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I read that you should only treat the fretboard about once a year for the reasons that you mentioned. On the Taylor video I referenced, they (Rob Magargal) recommend using a little linseed oil.
He also waxes the guitar with a Turtle Wax automotive wax called Express Shine. He says you can use any automotive wax as long as it doesn't contain silicone. I almost tried a Maguiar's product (great for cars, BTW), but I'm not 100% sure that it doesn't contain silicone (I don't think it does). For my guitars I use a product called Winzer, and sometime an old spray can of Gibson Guitar Polish.
Jim
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I clean the fretboard as needed with 3M 0000 Extra Extra Fine Synthetic Steel Wool
which is available at any hardware store.
Nice tip! I'll give it a try next time I clean the fretboard. Thanks! :)
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I clean the fretboard as needed with 3M 0000 Extra Extra Fine Synthetic Steel Wool
which is available at any hardware store.
Nice tip! I'll give it a try next time I clean the fretboard. Thanks! :)
My pleasure. Even though it's a synthetic material, it can scratch the fret board
just like steel wool can, so go lightly and with the grain of the wood.
st
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Any information to the contrary is just marketing by the product suppliers.
The main purpose of putting a surface finish on wood is to keep it from being damaged by water and to slow down moisture transfer - in other words to keep the wood dry so it does not expand. An ebony fret board does not have that kind of finish for that purpose, so anything you put on will evaporate relatively quickly (weeks) and really serves no purpose other than a temporary cosmetic improvement.
Taylor's not a guitar-accessories supplier, so I would assume that any product they recommend is done so with an eye toward effective maintenance and not marketing. With that in mind, they recommend using a small amount of linseed oil on the fretboard. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.
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Jim,
I don't remember where you purchased your 814ce, but I doubt that any dealer would have undisplayed Taylor inventory still in the box in the "back room".
Not true. There are probably MANY Taylor dealers with multiples of Taylor stock "in the back room" and only a few on display. Maybe not GC, but the smaller shops (that are actually some of the bigger Taylor dealers) have room for only a few (5-30) Taylors out front on display, but then have a huge stock of guitars in store rooms that should be considered and A/B'd against those on the wall when making this big of a buying decision. THE MAIN EXAMPLE I KNOW of this phenomenon is at Wildwood Guitars in Louisville, CO. They have hundreds of brand new Taylor guitars in storage, but not on display. They have 27 (yes, twenty-seven) 614 and 616 guitars on their website, in stock at their shop, but only 1 or 2 6xx models on display out front. Very deceptive, and I'm sure, not the only shop that does this.
Point being, DO always ask if there are others of the same guitar you just played in the showroom "in the back room" that you can look at, play, and A/B against the one on display. Nothing wrong with asking, and you never know... your true DREAM guitar might be the one in a box that you never would have seen if you hadn't asked if it was there! ;)
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Jim,
I don't remember where you purchased your 814ce, but I doubt that any dealer would have undisplayed Taylor inventory still in the box in the "back room".
I bought it at a locally owned and operated shop in the Atlanta area called Ken Stanton Music. They are actually a pretty big operation with six stores in the area. It's a good, reputable business and I'm pretty sure that thay have a decent inventory of Taylor (and other) guitars, especially in the biggest lstore, which is where I bought mine. Also, if they don't have one that you want in one store, they'll get it from another if they have it there. Very good service and pricing.
Jim
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Jim,
I don't remember where you purchased your 814ce, but I doubt that any dealer would have undisplayed Taylor inventory still in the box in the "back room".
I bought it at a locally owned and operated shop in the Atlanta area called Ken Stanton Music. They are actually a pretty big operation with six stores in the area. It's a good, reputable business and I'm pretty sure that thay have a decent inventory of Taylor (and other) guitars, especially in the biggest lstore, which is where I bought mine. Also, if they don't have one that you want in one store, they'll get it from another if they have it there. Very good service and pricing.
Jim
And I guess my point was that there is a very good chance that they had multiples of the 814ce you bought, whether in the back room at that large store, or at one of other stores, that could have been newer, less used, prettier, sounded better, etc., etc. (all within the confines of YOUR subjective view of course), and it would have been wise to ask to see others. BOTTOM LINE for you and for this transaction though, is that you are happy with your purchase and you love your guitar, and to that I say, well done! :)
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just a couple of comments on the Taylor Video re cleaning and stringing a guitar..
1. The chap recommends linseed oil.. yuk.. too heavy and smelly for me.. I use a little lemon oil and a clean cloth, which brings me to the second comment: 2.. the guy is using "paper towels" to clean and polish a guitar.. wow.. I thought those things were very abbrasive and would leave scratches on the finish.. I would NEVER use a paper towl for anything around a guitar. .Only clean microfibre cloths go near my guitars..
Not into using "car polish" on a guitar either. some of them are abbrasive as well...
just my 2 cents...
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just a couple of comments on the Taylor Video re cleaning and stringing a guitar..
1. The chap recommends linseed oil.. yuk.. too heavy and smelly for me...
Actually, you need to use boiled linseed oil, not linseed oil. Quite a difference. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled, but contains chemical driers. Unboiled linseed oil can take months to dry.
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I suppose if there's real grunge on the fingerboard, I'd clean it. But barring anything gross, I don't see the point in cleaning the fretboard, and the term "conditioning" implies to me that the board needs to be "conditioned," which I believe it does not.
Sure some folks' hands sweat, and this not only creates dirt but can also be caustic, so yes, cleaning here is prudent. But the overwealming number of posts I've read over the years regarding cleaning/conditioning the fretboard always seem to imply that the neck needs it. The board needs proper humidity, but as for "needing" oil or "conditioning," that jury is still out. Read up on it and you'll find many convincing POVs on both sides. But after mannnny years, over many guitars (of varying board types), I've come to my personal conclusion that proper humidity is all the guitar board really needs. Anything one applies is merely topical and largely cosmetic (not that this is bad, but let's not confuse an aesthetic desire with an actual necessity).
And as for ebony, which concerns us here since this is all Taylor uses, fuggetabout it! This is a tough, dense wood. Anything you put on and wipe away is exactly that: being wiped away as precious little (if anything) is actually being absorbed. And there's nothing to gain aesthetically since you don't really darken ebony like some folks like to darken rosewood (except for figured or otherwise "special" ebony species, that is).
Sure this is all IMHO, but I just thought I'd toss in my two cents (FWIW :) ). BTW, I own FretDr oil ...good stuff that looks great on my rosewood boards. But I've used it very sparingly in the past, and have (in the last two years maybe) stopped using it altogether. Why? I just didn't see the point, honestly. It didn't "do" anything for the wood that I can tell, the board feels/behaves just as good without it, and I figure the shade of the wood is the shade of the wood and I should just accept that. It's all very liberating, actually. One less thing I have to do. Just restring and go. And I can appreciate the guitar just as well, if not more so. And yes, again, all IMHO :D
Edward
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just a couple of comments on the Taylor Video re cleaning and stringing a guitar..
1. The chap recommends linseed oil.. yuk.. too heavy and smelly for me...
Actually, you need to use boiled linseed oil, not linseed oil. Quite a difference. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled, but contains chemical driers. Unboiled linseed oil can take months to dry.
OK that would make some sense. he just says linseed oil and that threw me. still don't care for it tho..
Edward, you have made some good points and I do agree with you............
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On any guitars I set up I clean and oil the fret board with either linseed oil or sometimes just dunlop guitar cleaner, it depends on how much grime in present. Dr Ducks fretboard oil get used as well here.
If you do oil the fretboard just a few drops is all you need.
Most of the time I don't use a steel wool just a cloth and a a little elbow grease.
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Jim,
I don't remember where you purchased your 814ce, but I doubt that any dealer would have undisplayed Taylor inventory still in the box in the "back room".
I bought it at a locally owned and operated shop in the Atlanta area called Ken Stanton Music. They are actually a pretty big operation with six stores in the area. It's a good, reputable business and I'm pretty sure that thay have a decent inventory of Taylor (and other) guitars, especially in the biggest lstore, which is where I bought mine. Also, if they don't have one that you want in one store, they'll get it from another if they have it there. Very good service and pricing.
Jim
And I guess my point was that there is a very good chance that they had multiples of the 814ce you bought, whether in the back room at that large store, or at one of other stores, that could have been newer, less used, prettier, sounded better, etc., etc. (all within the confines of YOUR subjective view of course), and it would have been wise to ask to see others. BOTTOM LINE for you and for this transaction though, is that you are happy with your purchase and you love your guitar, and to that I say, well done! :)
I stopped in at the the shop a couple of weeks ago to say hello and see what new guitars they had in there. While I was there I asked if they keep an inventory in the back room. I was told that they do keep an inventory of the lower end models, but not of the high end guitars. They have four or five locations and at any time may have three or four 814's or higher, therefore not all of the stores may have one on display. That means you basically buy what you play. I was much happier with my guitar after I cleaned it knowing that whatever grime is on it now came from me and not "who knows?". Gladly, the 814's don't hang around for too long, limiting the number of people playing it.
Jim
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I stopped in at the the shop a couple of weeks ago to say hello and see what new guitars they had in there. ...
Jim
That's a very dangerous habit, Jim. ;)
Has the potential to become quite expensive. ;D
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I've not had my Taylor long enough to require steel wool, but when changing strings I've just used a wadded up DRY paper towel to scrub the fingerboard. It actually has a bit of an abrasive quality that will take away fine grime without any worry of damage to the wood/inlay. As long as it's done quite often I don't think I'll ever get a buildup of grime that would require more aggressive treatment.
I guess we'll see!
:)
-K
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I use 0000 steel wool and a wipe on and off of boiled linseed oil. I use a Fishman Rare Earth Blend Pickup that I take off when I change the strings.