Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Topic started by: KenGL on May 23, 2016, 03:54:18 PM
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Hi Folks,
I currently have four ES2-equipped Taylors and I've had another that I've since traded-in. Has anyone found a solution for the annoying trebly, pinging overtones that are often evident on many ES2-equipped guitars and generally on the G and/or D strings? These annoying overtones are currently resident on two of my ES2-equipped guitars. The overtones can occur both when the G and D strings are played open and also, usually not as badly, when fretted. I don't play out much anymore so I've lived with this for awhile on a couple of my Taylors but would like to fix this annoyance. We've all seen others write about this problem that can compromise the tone of this fine pickup system. I've found the problem to be usually confined only to the G and/or D strings. I'm not talking about fret buzz but the trebly, pinging overtones often heard on those two strings that can't be eliminated by adjusting the middle ES2 sensor or neck-relief. I think some of the causes of these trebly, pinging overtones could be:
1) The break-angle of the saddle slope behind the G and D strings. Maybe filing back the Micarta that the strings ride down the slope toward the bridge-pins would result in less saddle contact and more direct string pressure on the top of the bridge for these two strings and eliminate the annoying overtones?
2) Usually Taylors come well setup but a string not properly seated in its nut-slot could contribute to the pinging overtones.
3) Perhaps, high spots on areas of the saddle itself or wood splinters or other debris in the bridge-saddle slot or sensor holes can cause these annoying overtones?
So, has anyone out there found a remedy for these trebly, pinging overtones? Your advice and solutions are greatly welcome! Thanks.
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No specific advice for you except that perhaps you can find out about adjusting each of the little screws, which affects pressure on the piezo pickup, and thus volume. Perhaps less pressure on the offending strings will help tame the offending overtones.
Edward
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Thanks Edward but I and others have tried that and it doesn't always work. It's strange how the ES2 works perfectly on some guitars but has that annoying pinging on others. The pinging, when it's there, is also easily heard when playing the guitar acoustically, so I'm thinking the problem, and it's a fairly common one, is somehow related to the shape of the saddle or an improperly-cut nut and not so much the ES2 itself. Perhaps, Micarta, and/or the shaping of it where the strings go over its top, isn't a good choice for the saddle material on ES2-equipped guitars? There are some folks who've actually taken the ES2 out of their guitars and installed another system because of these pinging overtones. I could drop an email to Taylor, and will, about this problem but likely the reply I'll receive will be along the lines of "What problem?" Again, thanks for your response!
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What strings do you use?
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Elixir strings on my Taylors. I usually stay with the Elixir Phosphor Bronze and the string gage that Taylor factory-installs on their models. I'm all ears if you've got any better suggestions!
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Hey Ken,
Well if you're hearing it on particular strings when played acoustically, then your problem certainly is not the ES! The answer lies in the nut or frets:
- If the offending string is played open and you hear the nasty overtone, it's likely a nut cut too low. It's buzzing, albeit just enough to cause your tonal malady. If you play more lightly on the same string, does the ugly overtone go away? If so, it's because the string is vibrating in a smaller arc so not hitting the frets. The offending strings' nutslots need to be filled and recut less deeply.
- On the one bad string, does it occur all the way up the neck on every fret? If yes, it could be as simple as adding a bit more neck relief to allow the strings more room to vibrate cleanly. Neck relief, and possibly in concert with a minor change in the neck angle (authorized-Taylor tech ...easy peezy, possibly even covered under warranty), may yield a cleaner fundamental and eliminate said overtones. I know you had already mentioned relief, but at the risk of sounding obvious, the "correct" neck relief is that which works for your style of play. And your break angle is simply not going to create any overtone/pinging (unless it is egregiously shallow, which on an acoustic-guitar saddle is frankly pretty dang hard to accomplish!).
- As you said you get the bad overtones on fretted notes, are they on every fret on that string? If not, then it's possible (likely) some of your frets are high ...in other words the frets need a proper leveling. This is common, and obviously is part of the setup process at the factory before letting it go. Perhaps it slipped through QC and you've got a less-than-ideal fret level. Perhaps not "bad enough" to make the guitar sound like crap, but not good enough that some fretted notes fail to ring as cleanly as other fretted notes.
Hope that gives you a few things to try and/or look at. :)
Edward
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I had a similar issue on a 2013 FLTD and I ended up sending it to Taylor repair center for fret leveling and reworking the nut & saddle.
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Thanks!
This problem occurs on the G and/or D string on probably half of ES2-equipped new Taylors I've come across, and if you can hear it acoustically, it'll occur in the amplified tone too. I don't think it has anything to do with the ES2's design and electronics, but as you and Edward have mentioned, is likely a combination of nut, saddle and, perhaps frets. Sadly, it also occurs on other brands of new guitars whether equipped with electronics or not. I'm thinking the major culprit is the compensated saddles used on most brands of acoustic guitars these days. I'm thinking the compensation pattern along the top of the saddle may result in less downward pressure on the top of the saddle by the G and D strings which allows them to create this pinging tone. I'm going to play around with things and see if I can eliminate this problem. Thanks Again!
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I don't know if it's the same thing but I tweaked the truss rod to lower the action on one of mine and it sounded buzzy like you're describing. It did appear that the ES2 was picking up fret buzz that I couldn't hear acoustically. A little tweak in the opposite direction cured it though.
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The noise usually comes from the string buzzing in the nut slot, not because it's too low, but from the angle it takes from the nut to the tuner. The string is touching the side of the nut slot and buzzing. a decent tech can angle the nut slot to match the angle of the string and normally get rid of the offending buzz.
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So, has anyone out there found a remedy for these trebly, pinging overtones? Your advice and solutions are greatly welcome! Thanks.
So that's what that is. I thought it might be a signal problem. I'd love to hear of a remedy, too.
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I had a similar problem with my Taylor K10. If you have the Taylor Truss Rod Wrench or the proper tool for the job, adjusting the truss rod by removing the neck plate should help with resolving this problem. You can do this yourself or if you don't want to touch it, take it to a luthier. He'll have it adjusted at minimal cost as it just needs a tweak and then maybe a quick check with the intonation as well.
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I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on the possible causes and solutions for my G- and/or D-string pinging problem. I've found, however, that since I now play sitting down most of the time, my G- and/or D-string pinging is related mostly to my posture and how it affects the angle at which my flatpick hits the strings. When sitting, my guitars tend to tilt back somewhat towards my upper chest and this presents my flatpick with an angle across the strings that causes the G- and/or D-string, especially, to vibrate in what I'm assuming are arcs that cause this pinging. The pinging goes away when I sit up straight and the flatpick engages the strings at a more perpendicular angle. I've found this pinging also occurs on other brands of guitars, with or without pickup/preamp systems, when I'm sitting in a way that tilts the guitars toward my upper chest.
Again, let me thank everyone for their suggestions on possible causes of the pinging and I hope my playing-posture finding can help some of you with this problem.
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Glad you figured it out. Mystery problems are the worst. Sometimes just identifying the problem helps, even if it does not get fully solved.
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Honestly, I've only seen this on the old ES systems. The unwound strings on mine were awful until I had it upgraded to the new ES system.
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Resurrecting this thread to say that my recently purchased 324e is giving me the same issue, mainly on the D string. As has been mentioned, it is especially noticeable amplified, and it is NOT, I repeat NOT affected by posture; at least not with my guitar. It definitely sounds better fretted and with a capo. I took the guitar to the repair shop I generally use, and wouldn't you know it - the tech could not hear it. I was afraid that might happen. I described it as best I could. The guitar does need a set-up, so he's going to do that, and specifically make sure the nut and saddle are cool. He's also going to call Taylor to pick their brain on it. I'm hoping the set up takes care of it. I certainly hope the ES2 is not exacerbating the problem. I did try adjusting the screw for the D & G strings, but it made no difference. Any other thoughts, ideas, or new info on this D string "ping" issue?
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Never had this problem but like others I suspect that there is some nut issue. Luthier could fix it in a few minutes.
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If the "trebly, pinging overtones" being discussed here is the same thing that I'm hearing from my 416ce, I will agree that it is VERY annoying. Mine is from the B string mostly but also from the G string to a lesser degree. In my case it's not related to the ES system though because I get it both plugged and unplugged. It's just amplified when plugged in. It's especially apparent when a string is picked hard. Not as much of a problem with gentle fingerpicking or light strumming. I've been debating whether to take it to a luthier and have it checked out. The guitar has not had any kind of set up since I got it a month or so ago. This annoying ping is the only issue that keeps this from being a GREAT playing guitar.
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For what it's worth....
I had the same issue. I tried everything mentioned here and nothing worked. I know it was not the ES2.
So I spent the shipping money and sent the guitar to Taylor and they performed the following:
Reset neck, dressed frets, new nut & saddle, new strings, adjusted ES2, and setup to spec.
The guitar came back and the problem was fixed. They did not say which repair or combination of repairs actually fixed the issue.
They did not charge me a dime for the repairs and even picked up the return shipping. The guitar was still under warranty.
I have 5 other Taylors and have not had this issue with any of them.
I hope this helps. Best of Luck!!