Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: davwir on February 21, 2014, 11:53:51 PM
-
I am really liking the figured ebony they have chosen to adorn the new 800 series with on the fretboards.
Seeing some really nice ones.
Saw this one last week in a shop, just gorgeous.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5111505/800_Fretboard.jpg)
I now really prefer this look to the solid black ebony we have all chased forever..
I did personally like the flamed maple bindings more than the plainer ones they now use, but otherwise I really love all the new appointments and aesthetics they came up with for the updated 800 series.
-
Look forward to seeing them in person
-
I have seen some with what I'd call "mild" coloring which I think looks nice depending on the rest of the guitar/fretboard position markers but for me that particular coloration/pattern is too much. From a technical side, I wonder about the relative hardness of the white part of the fretboard vs the dark part. Is it the same? Also, any fretting finger grunge would seem to be far more visible though I guess it would tend to darken it over time which might be a good thing. At the moment, that sort of fretboard is fairly new so how it will work long-term will only be known after some years of actual use.
Frankly, IMO, the future of fretboards is Richlite or something like that. Without a magnifying glass, I can't tell any difference between the ebony on my HD28/414ce and the richlite on my D16 visually and I can't "feel" any difference at all. When you factor in that it is not subject to temp/humidity changes, it seems the way to go...
-
Absolutely love the look of this one! Having played multicolored ebony boards for a few years now, I can attest that there is no uneven feel across the fretboard, at least to my touch. They perform just as well as the straight black ebony fretboards I also own. Having played fretboards of other synthetic materials as well as rosewood, I can tell you I'm not a fan - the synthetics feel a bit too hard and the rosewood feels a bit too soft. Ebony seems to possess the Goldilocks factor - just right, at least for me...
-
I'd personally like to see that fb in context to the whole guitar for the simple reason that pic is not my cup o tea. Maybe on a blank fb and topwood/appointments that compliment the figuring??...
Which is great for all you guys who like em. I guess we won't be "competing" for the same guits ...lol!
Enjoy gents! Gotta love the variety Taylor is bringing to the table! :D
Edward
-
like edward, i would love to see the whole guitar. i do love the new marbled fretboards. they really break up the plainness of the all black ebony. i have seen a few that i thought was " a bit much" but, to each his own.
going on a road trip monday. planning on stopping at a few places and hopefully trying a few of these out !
-
That particular figure would be a deal breaker for me for that guitar. I like when wood is figured, and I really like Taylor's philosophy about using non-black ebony, but that blotchy appearance on your picture is unpleasant. If the figure extended to the treble side it'd probably be okay. I prefer a mottled appearance over the entire area of the fretboard--kind of like bear claw on a top. So, I probably won't be the one who buys an 800 series sight unseen...
-
I commend Taylor's (African) wood policy, but this over the top. Guitars being mass production these days, I don't believe in investing in them, but this might well raise the price of earlier editions of the 814 models.
-
Spoken like the true aficionados who were heading us right toward the cliff of having NO MORE EBONY. Brave new world. That marbled ebony is GORGEOUS. Old school thinking is just that.
-
I probably won't be the one who buys an 800 series sight unseen...
+1
-
I probably won't be the one who buys an 800 series sight unseen...
+1
Without it being solid black I will want to see it as well before I buy it. I do like the marbled look and will end up with a 814 that has it. Just not quite as much as the one pictured above.
-
This is the part that is very off-putting to me…
You order a new Taylor and you have no idea what you are going to receive, a black ebony fingerboard or a black and yellow fingerboard of a varying amount from barely noticeable to very pronounced. Basically, what this amounts to is Taylor is arbitrarily deciding that some people are getting a first grade (all black) fretboard, while others are receiving a 2nd or 3rd (or lower) grade fretboard…all at the same price and with no input from the customer…they get what they get. Doesn't seem a wise policy to me and it would totally prevent me from ever ordering a guitar with that possibility. They can "sell" it as environmentally a good thing, "green," etc but it still amounts to the fact that an all black ebony fretboard is a better grade of ebony than a marbled one. If you are OK with the fact that my new 8xx came with a first grade (black) fretboard and yours came with one having as much yellow as black, then it truly doesn't matter and this concern of mine has no meaning to you.
Now, for me personally, it doesn't matter from a practical viewpoint though I strongly object to the marketing philosophy. There's no way I'd buy a new guitar in the price ranges we're talking about without playing it first so if I selected one with a a marbled fretboard, it would be because I liked the look of the entire guitar as well as its sound.
-
It definitely is all about one's personal taste. I personally like the random variety that natural materials sometimes produce (as in leather). I don't consider multi-colored ebony to be of a lower quality, because it gets the job done just as well as solid black ebony. (Remember, Taylor grades woods on traditional aesthetics versus intrinsic quality.) The other important factor is the trust I've developed in Taylor's aesthetic judgment over the years, especially with BTOs. I have never seen Taylor produce an "ugly" guitar, which is something I can't say for many other makers.
I'm thinking about ordering an 814 later this year with some of my preferred options, and I'll ask for extremely marbled ebony if I'm allowed the choice. Even though I'm somewhat older, I like to think that I can maintain an open mind to new experiences. Life is too short to sweat these types of details....
-
Spoken like the true aficionados who were heading us right toward the cliff of having NO MORE EBONY. Brave new world. That marbled ebony is GORGEOUS. Old school thinking is just that.
+1
same seems to go for "genuine" tropical mahogany necks too, but if manufactured materials get the job done, without having to add
urea formaldehyde, with enough people being "ok" with it & keeping the cost on some guitars from having to increase even further, then
hopefully that'll leave more real wood for the rest of us who would rather have the tone & feel of something other than a countertop ::)
ymmv
-
OK, be honest now…
Are you really saying you would not care about the appearance of the guitar when that marbled fretboard showed up regardless of the level of coloring?
-
OK, be honest now…
Are you really saying you would not care about the appearance of the guitar when that marbled fretboard showed up regardless of the level of coloring?
is it a deal-breaker? absolutely not. i like the marbling to a point. some of what i've seen is a bit much but ya know what?
it won't effect the tone whatsoever. that's what would make me buy it with over-marbling. when i'm playing it, i won't see it and that's really what it's all about isn't it?
-
It would most definitely be a deal-breaker to me. I think that highly marbled fretboard tends to look like camo, and that's just not appealing to me on a guitar. A little bit of subtle streaking ... okay. While it's true that tone trumps all, that doesn't mean aesthetics are irrelevant.
-
I think grain and color variation in wood is inherently beautiful. Could there be a certain pattern in a certain ebony fret board that doesn't suit my eye? Sure. Same with a Koa guitar... I am not sure who buys a 800 series priced guitar without seeing it first?
I do however cringe and get a bit miffed when people keep saying that "all black" ebony is the only good ebony. Nonsense. The wood has all the same physical properties. We were wasting, according to Bob Taylor up to 90% of the usable ebony supply, so that people could get a pure black fret board.
It is pretty clear that Taylor is trying to make a stand and change perception by putting the "smoky" (as they call it) ebony on their top selling guitars. This is a big deal to me, as I hope it is to others.
What if there was a huge supply of Braz RW suddenly discovered, but it had weird creamy lines and streaks through it? People would be jumping all over it.
If you haven't watched this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY
You should.
"Let's pretend we already ran out of ebony, and years later, we found more... but it had color variation." - (paraphrased).
-
It would most definitely be a deal-breaker to me. I think that highly marbled fretboard tends to look like camo, and that's just not appealing to me on a guitar. A little bit of subtle streaking ... okay. While it's true that tone trumps all, that doesn't mean aesthetics are irrelevant.
Yep. The 700, 800, and 900 series guitars have become more about the aesthetics. Not a bad thing, just my personal observation. Taylor makes BEAUTIFUL guitars that sound and play great. I also appreciate the use of marbled ebony for the sustainability.
If a guitar like the one pictured at the beginning of this thread showed up as one I ordered, I would be less than thrilled about it. Seems to me that when something becomes "cool," (and I think the marbled fretboards have a cool factor), somebody has to over-do it. I think the fretboard in that original photo is over-done. Maybe for the effect, maybe to make a point - but beauty is a personal thing.
Taylor has always given us plenty of choices... with the marbled fretboards, you have one more "thing" to consider when making a choice.
Jim
-
OK, be honest now…
Are you really saying you would not care about the appearance of the guitar when that marbled fretboard showed up regardless of the level of coloring?
yep ...
as long as i liked the tone
i made the mistake of buying into the technical features & "upgrades" & passed on this one -
the guitar that i bought instead of the BBT, i no longer have, but
the one that replaced it flat-out "smoked" a '42 D28 this weekend 8)
-
I suppose it's not a big issue either way - Luthiers have been staining ebony fretboards for many years - StewMac, Luthiers Mercantile, and others sell stain for that purpose. But I do object to Taylor's philosophy re selling these fretboards and making is sound as if they are "better" than solid black (on the other hand, I'm impressed by their marketing department):
"Premium appointments include… smoky ebony fretboard."
Looks to me like Taylor paid some money to Apple for the rights to use Steve's famous Reality Distortion Field." :)
For example, on their website, the guitar depicted on the 810 pic has coloring that is barely noticeable. IMO, what they SHOULD be doing is making it clear that the "smokey" fingerboard could be everything from barely noticeable to in-your-face garish.
-
I knew this day would come. My next guitar will be made of carbon fiber.
-
I bought an Alvarez sight unseen. Cost about the same as a hundred Big Macs. For something costing ten times more than that, I would never buy it without first seeing and playing it.
-
I TOTALLY agree with that but it seems based on posts here that a lot of folks buy sight-unseen via internet companies… Certainly in some cases it's because they don't have any shops/whatever close enough or with any inventory and I guess, in that case there is little choice. OTOH, companies like Sweetwater do sell new instruments with pics and you can select the particular instrument based on appearance though sound will be an unknown.
-
Spoken like the true aficionados who were heading us right toward the cliff of having NO MORE EBONY. Brave new world. That marbled ebony is GORGEOUS. Old school thinking is just that.
I think that the "gorgeousness" of marbled ebony (and the extent of marbling) is really a matter of opinion; and as Taylor transitions from a long held standard, opinions will vary widely. I don't think that anybody is trying cause an environmental disaster because they haven't warmed up to the new look in the first month...
-
I think that we've all been subjected to the whole "photo-shopping" or "air-brushing" effect, used a lot with models in an effort to create "perfect" human beings. It's time for us to accept (and hopefully embrace) the diversity that occurs naturally in all of God's creation. Try it - it can be lots of fun to challenge pre-conceived notions masquerading as rules for every eye of every beholder....
-
But I do object to Taylor's philosophy re selling these fretboards and making is sound as if they are "better" than solid black ...
exactly how & where does Taylor make it sound as if the figured ebony is "better" than solid black ???
"Premium appointments include… smoky ebony fretboard."
if it is noted at all, it is the next to the last, if not the last, feature listed -
imho, an ebony fretboard is a premium appointment, which just
happens to be on every single guitar Taylor currently makes
For example, on their website, the guitar depicted on the 810 pic has coloring that is barely noticeable. IMO, what they SHOULD be doing is making it clear that the "smokey" fingerboard could be everything from barely noticeable to in-your-face garish.
Taylor has chosen to put their interpretation of how they view the aesthetics of certain figuring characteristics -
wood is a natural substance & there will be variations & if one is going to actually invest in one of these guitars,
rather than just talking about it, then they should contact their local dealer for an "in-hand" description, imho
i imagine this may cause more headaches for dealers, as there will inevitably be some that will now ask for extremely
detailed pictures of the fretboard, bridge & headstock overlay, which there is nothing wrong with that, i'm just sayin' -
if anything other a solid black coloration on a fretboard is a concern, there are always options
(https://schools.peoriaud.k12.az.us/sites/LHS/LibertySchoolStore/School%20Supplies/Black%20Sharpie.jpg)
http://www.martinguitar.com/model/item/975-gpcpa1-plus.html (http://www.martinguitar.com/model/item/975-gpcpa1-plus.html)
ymmv
-
What I really like about the use of the smoky ebony is that each guitar is different! It gives each guitar its own identity and look. You could have five 800 series guitars in a room and be able to tell them apart at a glance. In the new W&S Bob talked about how they used to discard the ebony that was not pure black. Since this is a resource that is in short supply, why not use it? It is still ebony and doesn't affect the sound of the guitar or the feel of the neck. It is purely cosmetic and gives each instrument its own look. Some will like it and some won't but that is not a strong enough reason to discard the streaked ebony that is limited in supply. Would that not border on irresponsibility with our natural resources? I applaud Bob for doing this! Here is a pic from the Sweetwater site of a rather extreme example. I would not order this one as I like a more subtle look, but I'm sure there are players out there who would love this look.
-
What I really like about the use of the smoky ebony is that each guitar is different! It gives each guitar its own identity and look. You could have five 800 series guitars in a room and be able to tell them apart at a glance. In the new W&S Bob talked about how they used to discard the ebony that was not pure black. Since this is a resource that is in short supply, why not use it? It is still ebony and doesn't affect the sound of the guitar or the feel of the neck. It is purely cosmetic and gives each instrument its own look. Some will like it and some won't but that is not a strong enough reason to discard the streaked ebony that is limited in supply. Would that not border on irresponsibility with our natural resources? I applaud Bob for doing this! Here is a pic from the Sweetwater site of a rather extreme example. I would not order this one as I like a more subtle look, but I'm sure there are players out there who would love this look.
This particular 814 looks like a Taylor on injured reserve. I think they should reserve their most variegated ebony for LTD runs or BTO models, not for their flagship models which ooze consistency as a hallmark
-
It will be interesting to see the paradigm shift in thought with a greater saturation of figured ebony fretboards, bridges and headstock overlays over time...in other words, what will this conversation sound like in a year or so?
-
OK, so when I re-fretted and refinished the neck and fretboard on my 1968 vintage Sears Silvertone acoustic, i sanded through the black stain in places and had patches of lighter wood showing. Little did I know that I was 15 years ahead of the curve on "marbled" or "smoky ebony". I bought some black stain from Stew Mac and easily made it all black again, and all these years later it still looks nice and even. Who would have suspected that I was a trendsetter?
-
Looks like we're pretty much evenly split on this issue. As for me, when I consider a guitar at the price levels of Taylors, I think I have a right to say that I don't like the "marbled" (euphemism) look and would not accept one unless the fretboard is traditionally solid black.
I'm all for conservation, but I think this new use of the whole ebony tree should be reserved for guitars in lower price ranges, unless a particular buyer specifies it.
I also don't agree with those who say that tone always trumps looks. I would never buy a guitar that I think is ugly, no matter how great the tone.
-
Just a reminder: I've not read that anyone is suggesting that Taylor not use nor build with ebony that is not uniformly black. This is a simple question really: do you want to buy it?
And for that matter, the "it" here --said guitar with figured fb material-- has always been in play with every guitar that we've ever seen since we first ever picked one up. And that is aesthetics. We've all commented, aloud or within, on the plus or minus of whatever guit we've tried or seen. Some "make it" and we buy em, some we give a pass because the tone outweighs the aesthetic, others won't even pass the bar and we won't buy, let alone try. This has always been the case, and will continue to be the case.
So the point of a figured fb really is no different than any other aesthetic. Remember that "abalone rosette" thread? Nothing wrong with wanting or not wanting a guitar because of its appearance.
Edward
-
I have seen some with what I'd call "mild" coloring which I think looks nice depending on the rest of the guitar/fretboard position markers but for me that particular coloration/pattern is too much. From a technical side, I wonder about the relative hardness of the white part of the fretboard vs the dark part. Is it the same? Also, any fretting finger grunge would seem to be far more visible though I guess it would tend to darken it over time which might be a good thing. At the moment, that sort of fretboard is fairly new so how it will work long-term will only be known after some years of actual use.
Frankly, IMO, the future of fretboards is Richlite or something like that. Without a magnifying glass, I can't tell any difference between the ebony on my HD28/414ce and the richlite on my D16 visually and I can't "feel" any difference at all. When you factor in that it is not subject to temp/humidity changes, it seems the way to go...
I would have agreed about synthetic ebony two years ago, but now I do not think that is the case. BT made a successful move that supplies enough ebony for all of the large builders in the past two years. The supply problem was deeply tied to the reality that most ebony trees that were cut were left to rot because they did not have a completely solid black appearance. Now those trees are being used, not just by Taylor but by all the big builders.
-
This is the part that is very off-putting to me…
You order a new Taylor and you have no idea what you are going to receive, a black ebony fingerboard or a black and yellow fingerboard of a varying amount from barely noticeable to very pronounced. Basically, what this amounts to is Taylor is arbitrarily deciding that some people are getting a first grade (all black) fretboard, while others are receiving a 2nd or 3rd (or lower) grade fretboard…all at the same price and with no input from the customer…they get what they get. Doesn't seem a wise policy to me and it would totally prevent me from ever ordering a guitar with that possibility. They can "sell" it as environmentally a good thing, "green," etc but it still amounts to the fact that an all black ebony fretboard is a better grade of ebony than a marbled one. If you are OK with the fact that my new 8xx came with a first grade (black) fretboard and yours came with one having as much yellow as black, then it truly doesn't matter and this concern of mine has no meaning to you.
Now, for me personally, it doesn't matter from a practical viewpoint though I strongly object to the marketing philosophy. There's no way I'd buy a new guitar in the price ranges we're talking about without playing it first so if I selected one with a a marbled fretboard, it would be because I liked the look of the entire guitar as well as its sound.
FWIW Taylor owns 1/2 of the only supplier of Ebony to mass producers of musical instruments in the world. As a part of this acquisition BT got many of the heads of competitors together to meet about using marbled ebony and made the promise that they would not hold back the all black ebony for specific instruments, etc and would use the ebony they are now selling to everyone in a fair way. This arrangement was the only way natural ebony had a chance of remaining sustainable not in the distant future but in the next few years. Because of this move ebony may very well be available permanently barring unseen ecological disasters in Cameroon which is the last large source for ebony.
You will see marbled ebony on Martins, and other mass producers of instruments in the near future unless they choose to stain the fretboard.
Here are two links that tell a little bit of the story:
http://www.taylorguitars.com/media/taylor-guitars-future-ebony
http://www.taylorguitars.com/about/sustainable-ebony
-
..i imagine this may cause more headaches for dealers, as there will inevitably be some that will now ask for extremely detailed pictures of the fretboard, bridge & headstock overlay, which there is nothing wrong with that, i'm just sayin' ...
Folks have been asking for detailed pictures long before Taylor started using "marbled" Ebony so I doubt this will be a problem for Taylor dealers. BTW, I like the Ebony in the OP. ;)
-
On the 812ce 12 fret I acquired, the ebony on the neck looks awesome to me.
It's just enough and almost invisible at some angles, yet it really gives it some character.
-
That is a nice 812. The fretboard is just about right. A little smoke makes it all good. 8)
-
concur - looks nice. :)
-
I have to admit, that looks like a defective guitar. My guitar should not look like a "second."
What I really like about the use of the smoky ebony is that each guitar is different! It gives each guitar its own identity and look. You could have five 800 series guitars in a room and be able to tell them apart at a glance. In the new W&S Bob talked about how they used to discard the ebony that was not pure black. Since this is a resource that is in short supply, why not use it? It is still ebony and doesn't affect the sound of the guitar or the feel of the neck. It is purely cosmetic and gives each instrument its own look. Some will like it and some won't but that is not a strong enough reason to discard the streaked ebony that is limited in supply. Would that not border on irresponsibility with our natural resources? I applaud Bob for doing this! Here is a pic from the Sweetwater site of a rather extreme example. I would not order this one as I like a more subtle look, but I'm sure there are players out there who would love this look.
$
-
I TOTALLY agree with that but it seems based on posts here that a lot of folks buy sight-unseen via internet companies… Certainly in some cases it's because they don't have any shops/whatever close enough or with any inventory and I guess, in that case there is little choice. OTOH, companies like Sweetwater do sell new instruments with pics and you can select the particular instrument based on appearance though sound will be an unknown.
Yup. exactly what happened to me. Bought sight-unseen, I truly wished everything looked and sounded perfect. After learning the all-new 800 series 'smoked' ebony fretboard, I had mixed feelings with it. I imagined, what-if this is the year I bought sight-unseen for the 814ce? Will I still pull the trigger? I think not. Maybe I will demand a few pics before committing into getting one. few strips are fine, but a lot would be a deal breaker for me.
So yeah, it matters too. :)
-
On the 812ce 12 fret I acquired, the ebony on the neck looks awesome to me.
It's just enough and almost invisible at some angles, yet it really gives it some character.
This is perfect to me. Enough to see the beauty of nature, but not distracting. I like it. I'm one that tends to like some character in the grains, because mother nature isn't perfect. As long as it doesn't affect the structure or sound.
-
I TOTALLY agree with that but it seems based on posts here that a lot of folks buy sight-unseen via internet companies… Certainly in some cases it's because they don't have any shops/whatever close enough or with any inventory and I guess, in that case there is little choice. OTOH, companies like Sweetwater do sell new instruments with pics and you can select the particular instrument based on appearance though sound will be an unknown.
Yup. exactly what happened to me. Bought sight-unseen, I truly wished everything looked and sounded perfect. After learning the all-new 800 series 'smoked' ebony fretboard, I had mixed feelings with it. I imagined, what-if this is the year I bought sight-unseen for the 814ce? Will I still pull the trigger? I think not. Maybe I will demand a few pics before committing into getting one. few strips are fine, but a lot would be a deal breaker for me.
So yeah, it matters too. :)
I can completely understand how you would feel that way. If you watch the video on the link I posted the explanation changes the context a little bit. To paraphrase what the video tells us is if we continued to harvest Ebony from the last place in the world where it can be legally harvested it will be exhausted in five years and there was no Ebony left for mass produced guitars. So Ebony leaves the market and is replaced with alternatives such as richlite, etc. Now five more years later one of the large guitar companies announces hey we have found a new source of Ebony with the same qualities as the previous Ebony except for one, it displays variegation. Nearly everyone would be ecstatic. Why not skip the five years and protect the last supply of Ebony. Nearly every mass producer of guitars buys there Ebony from Taylor now. They are getting the same variegation in the Ebony, but many are not yet introducing it using stockpiled Ebony for the time being. Soon all of the mass producers will be selling guitars with variegation. It will vary from piece to piece. Soom will sort through their bulk purchases from Taylor-Madinter holding the pieces that have little variegation for their premium offering. Others will phase it in differently. Taylor as the owner of the supply is doing the responsible thing and leading by example which was something they promised the rest of the industry that bought from this source in the past.
-
Agree- in a few years, I believe this discussion will have decreasing relevance as people become more accustomed with the look. There may also be a trend of less fingerboard inlays, so that the beauty of the wood is allowed to stand on its own. I own two (BTO) guitars with figured ebony fingerboards, and they tend to stand out in the pack, especially since there are no distracting inlays. I'll probably do the same with another BTO in the future....
-
Ebony streaking seems to be the new bear claw: some folks love it, while others think it's kind of ugly. I foresee a new Taylor tech sheet going out in the cases of new guitars describing how to stain the fretboard if you don't like the streaking. ;D
-
That's a good comparison! There are tops with some slight bear claw that I like a lot and tops with a lot of bear claw that I think look terrible.
-
Just a few years ago I would have never even considered a guitar with a marbled neck or bear claw on the top. And I believe some of this is marketing hype, to help us accept these things.
But after Gibson getting busted for illegal wood (and I believe they were duped for this), the advent of sinker wood, two ply fret boards, and so on, I truly believe this is the future of guitar building. I also totally endorse this.
I just recently bought an 812CE. I saw the pictures prior to the purchase. The neck has some marbling along most of the fret board. The head stock has some marbling. The top has ~ 5 areas of bear claw, the longest ~ 2".
In my mind, I have a "custom" one of a kind guitar w/o the higher cost. I bought this off the internet and have no regrets. The pictures displayed all the "defects" or "custom features", depending on your take on this.
JMHO,
TW
-
Just a few years ago I would have never even considered a guitar with a marbled neck or bear claw on the top. And I believe some of this is marketing hype, to help us accept these things.
But after Gibson getting busted for illegal wood (and I believe they were duped for this), the advent of sinker wood, two ply fret boards, and so on, I truly believe this is the future of guitar building. I also totally endorse this.
I just recently bought an 812CE. I saw the pictures prior to the purchase. The neck has some marbling along most of the fret board. The head stock has some marbling. The top has ~ 5 areas of bear claw, the longest ~ 2".
In my mind, I have a "custom" one of a kind guitar w/o the higher cost. I bought this off the internet and have no regrets. The pictures displayed all the "defects" or "custom features", depending on your take on this.
JMHO,
TW
Gibson was not duped. Gibson knew exacly what they were doing.
-
Casting my vote for the variegated or "Smoky" Ebony. Variety in grain and color makes the guitar uniquely yours, and beats the pants off an artificial (Richlite) fretboard. If there's an issue with the quality of the wood, then the lifetime warranty will cover repair or replacement.
-
I personally love the figured new boards. To my eyes they give each guitar an individuality and uniqueness not usually found in mass market instruments. I don't see how it differs from any other wood figuring to be honest? I'm sure back in the day some looked at some of the crazy, spider webbed Brazilian RW and wrote it off as garbage compared to the nice, straight grained stuff that makes up the best tone wood. My new 814 FE is super slick and part of the excitement on unboxing it for the first time was seeing what came. Yes I ordered it sight unseen btw - but much the same as giving birth you never know what you'll get, but you'll love it regardless.
-
I'm sure back in the day some looked at some of the crazy, spider webbed Brazilian RW and wrote it off as garbage compared to the nice, straight grained stuff that makes up the best tone
Back in the day? Heck, I think the majority of players still feel this way, and dismiss BRW and Cocobolo that are not straight grained as inferior.
This comes out of tradition of what they have seen before, and a belief that figured wood or wood with sapwood doesn't sound as good.
I personally don't believe that, and have never heard any tonal differences to support it.
It's never going to be everyone's taste.
But I prefer the look of figuring and sapwood and embrace the unique visual properties.
-
I'm sure back in the day some looked at some of the crazy, spider webbed Brazilian RW and wrote it off as garbage compared to the nice, straight grained stuff that makes up the best tone
Back in the day? Heck, I think the majority of players still feel this way, and dismiss BRW and Cocobolo that are not straight grained as inferior.
This comes out of tradition of what they have seen before, and a belief that figured wood or wood with sapwood doesn't sound as good.
I personally don't believe that, and have never heard any tonal differences to support it.
It's never going to be everyone's taste.
But I prefer the look of figuring and sapwood and embrace the unique visual properties.
Yeah I completely agree - tonally speaking I don't know how figure could have anything to do with it but I'm no pro by any means. A luthier once told me the straight grained stuff was more stable but who knows? I love the looks of figured wood as well - it totally adds character!
-
Hey Dave, Got to vote on the side of "Meh." Not liking the "figured" ebony. It looks defective to me. And like some others, I wonder how smooth it is - and how smooth it will remain - where the colors change. It's not that I'm doctrinaire or old fashioned; I just don't find it beautiful. That's just taste.
-
Hey Dave, Got to vote on the side of "Meh." Not liking the "figured" ebony. It looks defective to me. And like some others, I wonder how smooth it is - and how smooth it will remain - where the colors change. It's not that I'm doctrinaire or old fashioned; I just don't find it beautiful. That's just taste.
Of course. Visual preferences are the same as audio ones, we all have our own unique tastes in what we prefer..
Some people like fancy inlay, some don't want to see any of it, some people prefer Martins, some Taylors..
The abundance of good choices and opinions out there is a great thing indeed!!
-
Hey Dave, Got to vote on the side of "Meh." Not liking the "figured" ebony. It looks defective to me. And like some others, I wonder how smooth it is - and how smooth it will remain - where the colors change. It's not that I'm doctrinaire or old fashioned; I just don't find it beautiful. That's just taste.
Of course. Visual preferences are the same as audio ones, we all have our own unique tastes in what we prefer..
Some people like fancy inlay, some don't want to see any of it, some people prefer Martins, some Taylors..
The abundance of good choices and opinions out there is a great thing indeed!!
Some people feel very strongly about the fingerboard being solid black. They would rather have black plastic(Micarta)than having a marbled fingerboard made of ebony.
-
... And like some others, I wonder how smooth it is - and how smooth it will remain - where the colors change...
Taylor's been using marbled, figured, streaked, striped, non-solid black coloration for over the better part of 20 years -
i have yet to see, or hear of, a case of someone mentioning an issue with a non-solid black color ebony
fretboard to where it feels, wears, sounds, or holds frets any different than one that has solid black color
i have also owned, & currently own, Taylors built from 4 different factories, even a few 20+ year old models that have
rosewood fretboards & not one of them have ever shown the slightest concern with any type of fretboard wear
do you really think that a material would be used on a guitar that has a lifetime warranty to the
original owner if it was known from the get-go that there could be structural integrity issues ???
replacing a fretboard is quite labor intensive & for any amount of $ that may have been able to saved, if any, would not
be worth putting a company's reputation for quality as stake, imho, for something that's used on 99.999% of their products
-
It's too bad they couldn't continue the marbling from the fret board on the bridge, it think that would have looked a lot more deliberate.
-
It's too bad they couldn't continue the marbling from the fret board on the bridge, it think that would have looked a lot more deliberate.
I would agree with this, because I like the look. (I ordered my two BTOs with figured ebony fretboards and bridges.) However, I suppose that many people would also object to this as it doesn't represent that "traditional" look.
-
It's too bad they couldn't continue the marbling from the fret board on the bridge, it think that would have looked a lot more deliberate.
they have in the past, on other models
-
I wonder if you could BTO the fingerboard with it stained black? Or is that a option to ask for? Hmm...
-
i'm thinking that solid black color ebony fretboards will likely continue on the 900, koa &
PS models, to maintain the visual definition of the more intricate fretboard inlays -
in a past W&S it was said the most practical way to use dyed ebony was on an unbound
fretboard with no inlays, as the stain could bleed over into the fretboard binding and inlays
i'm not sure how well this works, as i've never tried it & i don't know of anyone that has
http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/promo/ts0046_ebony (http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/promo/ts0046_ebony)
the current Custom sheet shows ebony for fretboard & bridge, with no visible option for
solid black color or marbled, but i imagine that is a detail/option that can be worked out
-
Ebony dye bleeding into maple binding...could bring the flame back :D
-
i'm not sure how well this works, as i've never tried it & i don't know of anyone that has
http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/promo/ts0046_ebony
If you have to do the dyeing with the frets off the fingerboard it will be a pretty labour intensive job. That would make it completely to expensive. I wonder if you could still do it with the frets on. I am thinking you could. I don't think that the fret wire would take on any stain, and I doubt that there would be a problem with stain seeping down underneath the fret wire. Maple binding has finish on it so it would not permeate it, or would it?
-
I don't think the fret wire would take on any stain. Having some experience in staining gun stocks, if I were going to stain a fret board, I would put on several very light coats, letting each one dry overnight, until the desired result is achieved.
-
Hmmm, I've got the graying going on in spades and perish the thought of any dye touching me! (thankfully, the wife concurs ;) ).
And thus I feel likewise about any guitar I own. Personally speaking, of course, but the wood is the wood: if I don't like its figuring, I would never dye it to "make" it something that it intrinsically is not. It just smacks of "fake fake fake" to me. If one doesn't care for any wood's figuring, there are simply too many other offerings out there that would suit one's tastes; no need to resort to "trickery." Not to mention dye seems like an assault on a perfectly innocent guitar to me: it is what it is, save the tree --errr-- guitar!!
As was already succinctly said, figured grain is like tonal differences: we like what we like, and should simply move on from there. :D
Edward
-
Hmmm, I've got the graying going on in spades and perish the thought of any dye touching me! (thankfully, the wife concurs ;) ).
And thus I feel likewise about any guitar I own. Personally speaking, of course, but the wood is the wood: if I don't like its figuring, I would never dye it to "make" it something that it intrinsically is not. It just smacks of "fake fake fake" to me. If one doesn't care for any wood's figuring, there are simply too many other offerings out there that would suit one's tastes; no need to resort to "trickery." Not to mention dye seems like an assault on a perfectly innocent guitar to me: it is what it is, save the tree --errr-- guitar!!
As was already succinctly said, figured grain is like tonal differences: we like what we like, and should simply move on from there. :D
Edward
Taylor and other companies have been dyeing ebony for years and to my knowledge no complaints of trickery or dishonesty. I personally would rather have it all black. However I will be getting a 814ce someday soon and the current smokey style will be acceptable, but I will be looking for it to be lightly marbled.
Dyeing(staining) does not bother me. I think the burst and other stained tops and backs work well with Taylor and other guitars and I enjoy them. I don't consider them fake, just enhancements. The dyeing of the fingerboards to me is just another enhancement.
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/mgap1/rollover-T5C-12-taylor-guitars.jpg) (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/mgap1/media/rollover-T5C-12-taylor-guitars.jpg.html)
Now here is a case for Fake, Fake, Fake.
-
it has been stated in W&S that the ebony Taylor uses is not dyed & other than the original artist series in
the mid 80's & the transparent amber stain used on the standard 600s, starting in the very early 90s, with
the pearl leaf fretmarkers, the only consistent staining of woods that Taylor has done that i've seen, on
non-sunburst, edgeburst or transparent stain 600s, which have been natural since 12, standard models
were the mahogany back & sides & mahogany necks on the GS-MC models in 06, & GS5s starting in 07 -
if there are any dyed or stained ebony, or rosewood, Taylor fretboards out there, i'd like to see a pic of one,
as it'd be a first for me, but if the fretboards were unbound on the classical prototypes, that's a possibility
one of the questions in W&S asked was why a maple fretboard option wasn't offered on the SB & the response was something
along the lines of the process to apply finish (UV) to the fretboard hasn't been developed, possibly for long term durability -
if the process gets worked out & a satin black maple fretboard & bridge are offered that barely show the grain, sign me up 8)
transblack has been done with a gloss finish on a few models, on satin finish necks for BTOs & maybe a few others too ;)
-
Hmmm, I've got the graying going on in spades and perish the thought of any dye touching me! (thankfully, the wife concurs ;) ).
And thus I feel likewise about any guitar I own. Personally speaking, of course, but the wood is the wood: if I don't like its figuring, I would never dye it to "make" it something that it intrinsically is not. It just smacks of "fake fake fake" to me. If one doesn't care for any wood's figuring, there are simply too many other offerings out there that would suit one's tastes; no need to resort to "trickery." Not to mention dye seems like an assault on a perfectly innocent guitar to me: it is what it is, save the tree --errr-- guitar!!
As was already succinctly said, figured grain is like tonal differences: we like what we like, and should simply move on from there. :D
Edward
Taylor and other companies have been dyeing ebony for years and to my knowledge no complaints of trickery or dishonesty. I personally would rather have it all black. However I will be getting a 814ce someday soon and the current smokey style will be acceptable, but I will be looking for it to be lightly marbled.
Dyeing(staining) does not bother me. I think the burst and other stained tops and backs work well with Taylor and other guitars and I enjoy them. I don't consider them fake, just enhancements. The dyeing of the fingerboards to me is just another enhancement.
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/mgap1/rollover-T5C-12-taylor-guitars.jpg) (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/mgap1/media/rollover-T5C-12-taylor-guitars.jpg.html)
Now here is a case for Fake, Fake, Fake.
Taylor guitars does not dye it's ebony. What you see is what you get. Martin Guitars does dye it's ebony.
-
LOL ...love the Travolta shots!!! May I never succumb to such vanity! :D
Likewise, may Taylor never succumb to such practice ...a practice I do feel (clearly IMHO) is amiss in honest guitar building. What you see should be what you get.
Edward
-
Saw a 514 yesterday with a little color washout of the ebony around the tenth fret. Need to call it for what it looks like--a blem..