Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Topic started by: genericjohnson on June 01, 2013, 02:20:25 PM
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Greetings all,
I purchased a new Taylor 414 a couple of months ago which sounds great. The action however seems to be a bit on the high side; 7/64 on both bass and treble sides. I'm not sure if the neck has moved. Firstly, do other Taylors have an action similar to this out of the box. Secondly, what would be considered as a satisfactory action for this guitar.
I've read that the neck can be reset easily, should I send it back to Taylor, I believe this is a warranty repair.
This is my first post, so many thanks in anticipation of your replies.
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Hi GenericJohnson, welcome to the forum. Lots of good information here, I think 7/64 is to high, but others here will give you more accurate info. I would at least talk to those who sold you the guitar, you did say you bought new right?
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I have no idea what Taylor's spec for leaving the factory is re action height but I can say that my new (old stock) 414 was at 5/64 which is the absolute max height for me. I adjust the action on any guitar I purchase to get it to play the way I want but I have to admit that the 414 I bought didn't need any action adjustment, the first guitar of my life that actually played satisfactorily out of the box. 7/64 is far to high for MY preference but maybe it's within Taylor specs.
If it was mine I would adjust the action at the saddle/nut, I wouldn't consider sending it back to Taylor for a shim change unless there is an actual neck alignment problem. But I know a lot of folks will disagree on that and would send it to them for an adjustment. TO me it just seems too troublesome - it could go back/forth several times to get it right where if you do it yourself, it's an hour job and you can fine adjust it until it plays exactly as you want.
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Thank you for the forum welcome, and taking the time to reply to my question. The guitar is indeed brand new. It's interesting you both consider 7/64 too high as I do. I'm not sure what the Tayor action specification is, anyone have any ideas? My understanding is the bolt on neck is supposed to be ajustable so you don't have to resort to sanding down the bridge, I don't want to do this in case it invalidates any warranty.
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G day mate, welcome to the forum lots of info about Taylor's here.
I'd just call the store where you bought it and ask if they can adjust the action on site.
It's a pretty simple undertaking with Taylor's, by the way the saddle is sanded on most guitars to adjust the action not the bridge.
Cheers
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I recently had the neck reset on my 410ce(2012) after having taken about 1.5mm off the saddle to get the action to 3/32 on the low e string. The break angle over the saddle was really flat & it seemed to have lost a bit of bass & volume. One reset later by Gabriel Ochoteco, the Brisbane Taylor approved bloke, and it's got its mojo back. All covered by warranty & the guitar is now set up perfectly for me - it's so much better I'd have been quite happy to have paid for the setup.
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"The break angle over the saddle was really flat & it seemed to have lost a bit of bass & volume."
Well, in that case I would definitely agree that a neck reset (re-shim) was needed. It sounds to me that the neck was definitely in need of work. Sounds as if the top/bridge had pulled up over time so that the relation of neck height to bridge height was no longer appropriate which is when a neck reset becomes necessary. Normally, changing a saddle height the slight amount needed to get a guitar to play as you want it has a virtually unnoticeable affect on the string angle from bridge to pin.
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Factory specs for action are 6/64" E and 4/64" at 12th fret.
http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/action.pdf (http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/action.pdf)
Relief specs are 0.004 - 0.007" relief (1st & 14th fretted @ 6th fret).
http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/truss_rod_adjustment.pdf (http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/truss_rod_adjustment.pdf)
Lowering the action by 1/64" at the 12th fret can be accomplished by taking the saddle down 2/64", but this can be enough of a difference to where it can affect the tone as bandit59 mentioned as I've seen it happen.
If the guitar has was purchased new from an authorized dealer and has not been damaged due to improper humidity, temperature or other, it should be covered under warranty to bring the action back into spec.
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Thanks all for sharing your thoughts. Given the specs for the action supplied by PureTone, It looks like mine is a bit off the money.
I have read a couple of articles where the mojo of an acoustic has been lost by reducing the break angle and dropping the saddle. As I like the sound of the guitar, I would hate compromise this by adjusting the saddle myself, I'll take it back to the store and get them to sort it with Taylor.
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It probably will just need a truss rod tweak, mine did. It's a very simple thing to do if you're mechanically inclined and have the right tools. I have the tools cause I'm always working on something. If not take it back to the store it will take all of 5 minutes or so. They should be happy to do it.
You'll really enjoy it when you're happy with your setup.
Best, Rick
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I would check the neck relief to make sure that is in spec first. then check action measurement. One does not need to send guitar back to Taylor to reset neck. any authorized service center can do it and warranty covers it if you are original owner. I would not touch the saddle. sanding that is a band aid fix for a bigger problem. It was the method used for glued in necks because it was a major operation to do a reset. Not with Taylors.
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The truss rod is not specifically for adjusting the action height HOWEVER, adjusting the rod will affect the action height so, as noted, the truss rod should be adjusted first and THEN the action height adjusted. It is possible that if if the neck is badly out-of-adjustment at the moment, adjusting the truss rod could reduce the height to acceptable levels.
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Verifying that the neck bolts are snug and that the neck relief is set between 0.004" and 0.007" may be enough to where the action will settle into spec.
If for some reason, the neck bolts have loosened up or if the neck has an excessive amount of relief in it (extreme forward bow), then snugging up the neck bolts and setting the neck relief could take care of that extra 1/64".
A truss rod adjustment is meant to set neck relief and not specifically to lower the action, but if there is too much relief in the neck to begin with, reducing the relief (which straightens the neck) may result in the action being lowered just a smidge as a by-product.
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leeasam, MexicoMike and Puretone, Those are great responses.
I agree to look for mechanical reasons first. The truss rod is not meant for action adjustments, but if the neck isn't right,...the action won't be. In my case it was obvious the neck wasn't perfect. I've been a Carpenter for 35yrs. or so,... still have a "good" eye.
Sanding saddles or anything else obtrusive is not a good idea on a new guitar.
The most important factor for anyone that would under take a truss rod adjustment is,.... wood does not move fast, it takes time, overnight at least. I moved mine maybe 30 degrees, waited about an hour and measured, it moved in the right direction. I played/practiced and put her in the case humidified. In the morning i got it out and it had moved 1/32nd. It's now 5/64ths just what I like.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you undertake a mechanical adjustment, go SLOW, a little can go a long way.
If you don't understand what you're doing, take it to a good shop!!
Best, Rick
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... Sanding saddles or anything else obtrusive is not a good idea on a new guitar.
The most important factor for anyone that would under take a truss rod adjustment is,.... wood does not move fast, it takes time, overnight at least. I moved mine maybe 30 degrees, waited about an hour and measured, it moved in the right direction. I played/practiced and put her in the case humidified. In the morning i got it out and it had moved 1/32nd. It's now 5/64ths just what I like.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you undertake a mechanical adjustment, go SLOW, a little can go a long way.
If you don't understand what you're doing, take it to a good shop!!
Best, Rick
+1
Also, if for some reason the guitar has been subjected to a high humiidity environment (sitting in the back storeroom where the climate control is not quite as adequate or consistent) over a period of time, that could be a concern also.
Taylor Tech Sheet
http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/10_SymptomsofaWetGuitar.pdf (http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/10_SymptomsofaWetGuitar.pdf)
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Outstanding. :)
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I am a little late getting in this but I just got a new Taylor 320Mahogany dread. My action is 3/32in and 2/32in at 12th fret low E and high E. For my own taste it is a little low as I would be more comfortable at 3.5/32in low E and 2.5/32 high E. I have Martins even at 4/32 and 3/32. I do play about half bluegrass and half country/ folk . I pay more attention to action at the nut and neck relief in my set up. I found these posts very informative if I ever decide to play at a lower action.
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Greetings all,
I purchased a new Taylor 414 a couple of months ago which sounds great. The action however seems to be a bit on the high side; 7/64 on both bass and treble sides. I'm not sure if the neck has moved. Firstly, do other Taylors have an action similar to this out of the box. Secondly, what would be considered as a satisfactory action for this guitar.
I've read that the neck can be reset easily, should I send it back to Taylor, I believe this is a warranty repair.
This is my first post, so many thanks in anticipation of your replies.
Technically, it is not the neck that moves on an acoustic guitar that needs a reset, it's the sound box (the body) that distorts over time from string tension and/or temperature and humidity changes. Any acoustic guitar that is built light enough to sound great will eventually need a neck reset as the strings pull on the body of the guitar and most notably on the top as the area around the bridge develops a slight belly. "Never trust a guitar without a belly," as they say! Of course, humidity will cause the top to sink or rise but if you keep your guitar in the 40's and 50's as a relative humidity percentage range where you store your guitar (case, music room ..etc.) that movement should be minimal. If your humidity is above 60%, your top is swelling and that may be causing the high action. That's not a warranty issue, that's a guitar care issue.
Any authorized Taylor service center can do a quick neck angle adjustment for you. It takes all of 20-30 minutes or so. That's the correct way to set up your string height if you need to take take more than just a smidgen off of your saddle to lower your action to your preferences. I've seen Taylor techs do a neck angle adjustment at a Road Show in about 10 minutes.
As noted here previously, the truss rod adjustment is for setting relief, not string height! In doing a complete set up, neck relief is the second thing checked/adjusted after first setting the neck angle. These are followed by checking/adjusting nut height and then saddle height. If you do these four steps out of order the process becomes hit-or-miss in terms of getting a desired and repeatable result. One of the reasons I love Taylors is the NT neck. No need to worry about a neck reset that requires steaming apart a glued joint and then woodworking with a chisel before regluing the neck. It will save you many hundreds of your dollars and quite a bit of time! A shim and an hour or less of labor (or perhaps covered under warranty) and you are good to go until the next time. It also makes buying a used Taylor with an NT neck less of a gamble than buying a used guitar with a dovetail or other type of glued neck joint. By calling Taylor I was able to find approved Taylor service locations not listed on their website and two were quite near to me... as I sure would hate to ship a guitar for such a quck adjustment.
Your ideal string height depends on your technique, string choice, neck relief preference, preferred tunings and probably some other factors. For example, a hard driving flatpicker might think your action is too low but a fingerstylist with a light attack might find it much too high. I like to be just under the Taylor factory string height of 6/64" (E) and 4/64" (e) and with sligthly less neck relief for a flatter neck. That is just me, however, and I don't use a flat pick or fingerpicks. Anyway, if a neck angle adjustment ("neck reset") is the required fix for your high action, don't sweat it. Taylor made that adjustment cheap and easy for you!!!
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Thanks again to all for contributing. The neck relief is fine, thats something I check regularly. The top is not showing any signs of movement, I think I just have one that may have gone out of whack due to the neck moving, or one that has slipped the Quality Control net...
It will be returned to the store I bought it from when I get the time..... ;)
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My low E string was .094 out of the box but Sweetwater sets them up before shipping. Either Sweetwater does an awesome job or Taylor builds them to spec when they ship! Either way I am happy with the low action!