Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: dougboy1970 on March 25, 2012, 06:45:05 PM
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There's a Zirocote Taylor Grand Symphony BTO at a music store I frequent that sounds unbelievable...almost like a 12 string though it's only six...I've never played one until now...anyone own or have experience with one? What's the general take on this wood?
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I have been searching for the right guitar in this tonewood. As I have heard it described, sounds like just what I have been looking for.
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_MPP.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_MPP.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH1.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH1.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH2.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH2.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH3.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH3.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH4.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ZIR_TH4.jpg)
Ziricote (Cordia dodecandra)
Also known as: Siricote, Ciricote, Zircote, Ziracote
Status: VERY RARE
Origin: Very limited growing region within Southern Mexico, Guatemala and Belize
Ziricote is the most dramatic member of the Cordia genus and stands apart from other exotic woods due to it’s unique grain lines that frequently depict spider webbing, marbled swirls, cloud bursts, mountains, valleys and other captivating patterns. The heartwood is reddish brown with irregular chocolate or black streaks that tend to form abstract art within itself. These color tones contrast nicely with the sapwood which ranges from creamy vanilla to golden tan. Artisan craftsmen are fond of incorporating this sapwood into their projects to maximize the final visual impact. It is a stunning combination indeed!
With a density higher than rosewood, Ziricote turns very well. It is able to take a very smooth finish and a high polish. Ziricote is slightly brittle but also known as a good steam bending candidate and is proven to hold nails and screws well. This exotic hardwood is easy to work by hand or machine and is stable in use. Ziricote wood has a medium to fine texture and a straight to slightly interlocking grain. It has a tendency to develop end and surface checks during drying, but is stable afterwards. Quartersawn surfaces will sometimes display ray or flake patterns similar to Hard Maple. The highly figured spider web grain is similar to what can be found in Brazilian Rosewood only more complex. Surface has a natural waxy appearance and takes on a satin finish with simple sanding.
Specific Gravity: 0.85 to .97
Hardness: 2200 Janka
Density: 56 pcf
Tangential Movement: 7.40%
Radial Movement: 4.00%
Volumetric Shrinkage: 11.60%
Durability: Very Good
Tone Qualities:
Well known as a tonewood, Ziricote is highly esteemed for instrument making. Many Luthiers repeatedly comment that Ziricote provides and experience identical to the finest rosewood. Others take note of its Ebony-like crispness. One guitarist described his experience as “not quite as deep as EIR, but with a sharper attack and a bit more note separation”.
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I can't speak to the tone but, visually, it's can be some of the most striking wood you've ever seen...
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I have been searching for the right guitar in this tonewood. As I have heard it described, sounds like just what I have been looking for.... Ziricote is slightly brittle but also known as a good steam bending candidate and is proven to hold nails and screws well...
hmm ???
(http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/47002/2227361260081788860S600x600Q85.jpg)
if i'd known that earlier, i might have gone with slightly different specs :-\
perhaps a bit 'palletized' ;)
http://taylorguitars.us/Guitars/Archive/Older/archive/pallet.html (http://taylorguitars.us/Guitars/Archive/Older/archive/pallet.html)
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The tone in the GS I played and heard at my local store definitely meets the standards established above...it had a boldness and clarity that made it ring like a bell...the store owner actually picked out the wood at Taylor with Bob Taylor himself and is very proud of it...called it "his baby" even though one day soon I bet his store parts with it. :)
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The tone in the GS I played and heard at my local store definitely meets the standards established above...it had a boldness and clarity that made it ring like a bell...the store owner actually picked out the wood at Taylor with Bob Taylor himself and is very proud of it...called it "his baby" even though one day soon I bet his store parts with it. :)
Are you thinking of this guitar for yourself? If not, where is this store located? I may want to try it out. As I mentioned before, I have been on the hunt for some nice Ziricote on a guitar that fits me.
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Hey cigarfan, the store is in Rock Hill, SC and is called Woody's Music...
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Hey cigarfan, the store is in Rock Hill, SC and is called Woody's Music...
Thanks dougboy1970! May give him a call.
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Dennis, I can see the GAS in your post!
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Awesome, Dennis! I'm sure whoever gets her is going to be VERY VERY VERY HAPPY...and we'll be ensured of at least 4-6 months of GAS free living...
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@ dougboy1970
I heard from Ed today. He took some pictures and sent them along. You are right about "his baby". He is a proud pappy!
I guess someone on the west coast read your post and got real excited cause by the time Ed sent me the pictures he said someone in CA had already bought it!
First photo is he and Bob Taylor at wood selection.
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ed&bob1.JPG (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ed&bob1.JPG)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote001.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote001.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote002.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote002.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote005.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote005.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote004.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/Ziricote004.jpg)
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
Wow Dave. Snatch and grab!
Congrats on what promises to be a special guitar!
Did Ed send these pics to you as well? I have the original hi-res if you want em'. Just let me know.
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Way to go Dave and sorry Dennis! I'm so happy that she found a new home with Dave and know you're going to be so pleased with her. I'll post again if I come across something interesting in my neck of the woods. Dennis, you'll have to visit Dave one day and try her out! :) PS, when I played her I didn't really look at the back and sides, wow! She's a beaut!
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
Wow Dave. Snatch and grab!
Congrats on what promises to be a special guitar!
Did Ed send these pics to you as well? I have the original hi-res if you want em'. Just let me know.
Yeah, he sent me the same pix.. I was trying to call them yesterday later in the day (I did make sure doughboy didn't want to buy it first, before asking him for info!), and left an email expressing interest.
Ziricote is a rarity for sure with them, I have been trying to get Taylor to build me a Ziricote BTO for the last year and a half, and they simply have had none available..
When a nice one popped up, I basically did grab it as soon as I could, who knows when another will be available, and at what cost..
All description of its tone have been off the charts positive, so pretty excited to give it a new home in sunny so-cal!
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
congrats dave :D
i am very interested to hear your upcoming 'review' of the ziricote guitar &
how it compares/contrasts to your adi/macassar RTS1 (the 'cote's got adi too :) )
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First photo is he and Bob Taylor at wood selection.
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ed&bob1.JPG (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ed&bob1.JPG)
Oooo...quite good lookin'--and the wood is great, too! ;)
I had hoped to get a ziricote BTO in 2010, but they didn't have any of the wood. This one is an absolute beauty, for sure! ;D Congrats on a extremely gorgeous guitar, davwir! And I'm sure it sounds as good as it looks! :)
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Incredible dimension in this stuff. It looks as if you would feel ridges if you ran your finger over it!
If this stuff sounds as amazing as it looks ...
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg)
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Incredible dimension in this stuff. It looks as if you would feel ridges if you ran your finger over it!
If this stuff sounds as amazing as it looks ...
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg)
Gee, it almost looks like Bob Taylor was having a little fun with his sharpie after signing some autographs! :o
The top middle section reminds me a little of angel's wings.
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I have a R Taylor Adirondack over Ziricote. Absolutely love it to this day. Here is my review a few posts down from my first post on another site.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217158 (http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217158)
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that is a sweet RTS1, delts :)
i like your review, especially the part regarding the appearance -
'The Ziricote is not bad looking. :)'
not bad ???
:o
(http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a405/lieiog/2011%20R%20Taylor/RTaylorStyl1-ziric_792902.jpg)
yep, i'd say it's pretty 'easy-on-the-eyes' ;)
thanks for sharing the pics :D
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ok, i was thinking grafted walnut for my next Taylor, but i think ziricote just moved to the top of the list ....
GASing already!
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I have a R Taylor Adirondack over Ziricote. Absolutely love it to this day. Here is my review a few posts down from my first post on another site.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217158 (http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217158)
delts ... Special guitar. You have any soundclips laying around for us folks who are curious about the tone. I am thinking your adi/ziri combo is what I may be looking for.
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davwir: congratulations, and may your cocobolo guitars not get jealous!
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delts ... Special guitar. You have any soundclips laying around for us folks who are curious about the tone. I am thinking your adi/ziri combo is what I may be looking for.
I am sorry I don't. I did have an EIR/Adi Taylor GA prior to getting this Ziricote guitar from R Taylor. I had both for a while but then ended up selling the EIR to fund a Santa Cruz D-12 which is being built right now. The EIR was amazing but the Ziricote was and still is my go to guitar. Similar in sound IMO, but the Ziricote is so much more rich and more depth to my ears. Different shape and R Taylor vs Taylor of course has an effect.
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
congrats dave :D
i am very interested to hear your upcoming 'review' of the ziricote guitar &
how it compares/contrasts to your adi/macassar RTS1 (the 'cote's got adi too :) )
She arrived yesterday.. Wow.. It's got quite a well balanced, deep tone indeed. I dropped it into DADGAD for a bit and it shined even more.. Really impressed.. It's loud, clear, bassy, with super tone and sustain. I would say I actually prefer it's tone to my RT Macassar Adi.. It's also the nicest playing GS I've owned or played, usually I lean toward GA's for the light strings, but the action is so good on this one, it's really not bothering me with the mediums on it at all.. The harder you push it, the better it seems to get.. I'm not usually a heavy handed player, but it's kinda fun to go a bit harder on this one with some nice open chords.
Also, as the dealer did tell me, the pictures don't actually do it justice, it's actually far better looking than apparent in the photos.. he was very right. I removed the clear pick guard, and ordered some Gotoh 510s for it already.
Thanx again Doughboy.
Super happy!
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That is SOOO awesome! I'm so glad it's even better than you expected in both sound and appearance. As for DADGAD, the GS series sounds amazing tuned there, the low D really rumbles and that drone/sustain effect just goes on and on . Both my GS8 and GS mini come to life in DADGAD and I think if I ever wanted to show someone what GS sounds like at its best, DADGAD is where I would go! I hope you get years of enjoyment out of that guitar!
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Incredible dimension in this stuff. It looks as if you would feel ridges if you ran your finger over it!
If this stuff sounds as amazing as it looks ...
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg)
Gee, it almost looks like Bob Taylor was having a little fun with his sharpie after signing some autographs! :o
The top middle section reminds me a little of angel's wings.
forgive my confusion, is this the actual guitar you just purchased?? holy schmoly that's gorgeous! would love to see more pics, especially the sides. congrats!
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Incredible dimension in this stuff. It looks as if you would feel ridges if you ran your finger over it!
If this stuff sounds as amazing as it looks ...
http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~dglair/pwpimages/ziricote-back.jpg)
Gee, it almost looks like Bob Taylor was having a little fun with his sharpie after signing some autographs! :o
The top middle section reminds me a little of angel's wings.
forgive my confusion, is this the actual guitar you just purchased?? holy schmoly that's gorgeous! would love to see more pics, especially the sides. congrats!
No, I purchased the one made from the set shown with Bob Taylor below..
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Hmm.. someone in CA.. lol..
That was me, my friend...
thanks for the info yesterday, doughboy!
congrats dave :D
i am very interested to hear your upcoming 'review' of the ziricote guitar &
how it compares/contrasts to your adi/macassar RTS1 (the 'cote's got adi too :) )
She arrived yesterday.. Wow.. It's got quite a well balanced, deep tone indeed. I dropped it into DADGAD for a bit and it shined even more.. Really impressed.. It's loud, clear, bassy, with super tone and sustain. I would say I actually prefer it's tone to my RT Macassar Adi.. It's also the nicest playing GS I've owned or played, usually I lean toward GA's for the light strings, but the action is so good on this one, it's really not bothering me with the mediums on it at all.. The harder you push it, the better it seems to get.. I'm not usually a heavy handed player, but it's kinda fun to go a bit harder on this one with some nice open chords.
Also, as the dealer did tell me, the pictures don't actually do it justice, it's actually far better looking than apparent in the photos.. he was very right. I removed the clear pick guard, and ordered some Gotoh 510s for it already.
Thanx again Doughboy.
Super happy!
Hey Dave. Glad your ziri has arrived and you are pleased. Play on .....
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the low D really rumbles and that drone/sustain effect just goes on and on .
I love the drop D tuning. I have a 716ce Ltd made with Imbuia b/s and it is the same effect deep rumble and great sustain.
I love Taylors!
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ok, i was thinking grafted walnut for my next Taylor, but i think ziricote just moved to the top of the list ....
GASing already!
As of January, Ziricote wasn't being offered in BTO.
That doesn't mean they don't have any; obviously, they do. They just don't (or, at least, didn't) have enough to offer it up to the public...
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
Mine is a 2010. Apparently from the last 4 pieces they had.
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
Mine is a 2010. Apparently from the last 4 pieces they had.
I could tell you how Ed from Woody's told me he got the ziricote, but then I would have to send assassins to terminate all readers of this thread and take this special tablet that Ed gave me...ha!
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
Mine is a 2010. Apparently from the last 4 pieces they had.
I could tell you how Ed from Woody's told me he got the ziricote, but then I would have to send assassins to terminate all readers of this thread and take this special tablet that Ed gave me...ha!
Hey, Ed gave me one of those pills too when he told me how much he was selling it for.
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
My R Taylor was built in 2011. At the time the last ziricote set they had on hand I was told.
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the last BTO ziricote guitar that i know of is the one Dave just got -
i'm guessing that it's an 08 or 09 model, but delts' R Taylor could
be a newer year model than that ... there were a few made in 02 ;)
Mine is a 2010. Apparently from the last 4 pieces they had.
I could tell you how Ed from Woody's told me he got the ziricote, but then I would have to send assassins to terminate all readers of this thread and take this special tablet that Ed gave me...ha!
Hey, Ed gave me one of those pills too when he told me how much he was selling it for.
Ha, I guess one could say it was little pricey, but I feel for the rarity of the wood and tone, it was a great deal :)
(Now I don't have to take the tablet!)
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Ha, I guess one could say it was little pricey, but I feel for the rarity of the wood and tone, it was a great deal :)
(Now I don't have to take the tablet!)
It was a good deal! That wood combo is awesome and rare. Just ask Dave. He had been searching for awhile.
I am still hunting! ... here little ziri ... I know you are out there somewhere.
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Ha, I guess one could say it was little pricey, but I feel for the rarity of the wood and tone, it was a great deal :)
(Now I don't have to take the tablet!)
It was a good deal! That wood combo is awesome and rare. Just ask Dave. He had been searching for awhile.
I am still hunting! ... here little ziri ... I know you are out there somewhere.
I bet you find it! What do you think about walnut? I was in his store on Sunday and he had a w16 and w14...I strummed the 16 and man, it sounded clean...not nearly as rare as ziricote, but I enjoyed the tone...for me, it was brighter than my EIR, but not too bright, as I'm now finding maple to be...
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i think that venturing outside of what some may consider to be 'traditional standard tonewoods'
(mahogany, rosewood & maple) that walnut could be a very viable option, in terms of tone,
aesthetics & value per $ spent & models i've played i found that i prefer the response of claro
over grafted & either the snap' of sitka or the warmth of cedar over an engelmann top -
a bit more clarity & definition than ovangkol & a bit more 'balanced' than imbuia, but
it also depends on what one's tonal preferences are (i like ovangkol & imbuia too)
a redwood/'fiddleback' walnut adi CV BTO could be done for right in
the 800 series range, provided the other options are kept 'in-check'
hmm ... ???
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I understand that ziricote is a rare wood, but does anyone know if it is also limited because of export/import restrictions?
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I understand that ziricote is a rare wood, but does anyone know if it is also limited because of export/import restrictions?
Actually, it isn't because of restrictions. Ziricote trees are rather small and very few get to the appropriate size for guitars.
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I understand that ziricote is a rare wood, but does anyone know if it is also limited because of export/import restrictions?
Nope.
There's just not a lot of it around to make guitars out of...
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Having authored this post, my only wish is that I had spelled ZirIcote correctly in the Subject line! :-[
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i think that venturing outside of what some may consider to be 'traditional standard tonewoods'
(mahogany, rosewood & maple) that walnut could be a very viable option, in terms of tone,
aesthetics & value per $ spent & models i've played i found that i prefer the response of claro
over grafted & either the snap' of sitka or the warmth of cedar over an engelmann top -
a bit more clarity & definition than ovangkol & a bit more 'balanced' than imbuia, but
it also depends on what one's tonal preferences are (i like ovangkol & imbuia too)
a redwood/'fiddleback' walnut adi CV BTO could be done for right in
the 800 series range, provided the other options are kept 'in-check'
hmm ... ???
I bet you find it! What do you think about walnut? I was in his store on Sunday and he had a w16 and w14...I strummed the 16 and man, it sounded clean...not nearly as rare as ziricote, but I enjoyed the tone...for me, it was brighter than my EIR, but not too bright, as I'm now finding maple to be...
I have played a walnut GA and really liked the tone. Problem was it was all walnut including the top. A really heavy guitar. But I think you guys are right the tone may resemble Ziricote in terms of clarity. It's definitely an option.
I am certainly not pressed right now to pick up another guitar. Plenty of sweethearts in the stable right now. But if the right Ziricote happens to materialize I may not be able to resist.
And Doug, you know there is the modify button.
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And Doug, you know there is the modify button.[/font][/size]
[/quote]
Thanks, modified! Phew, that feels better!