Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF

Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: ctkarslake on March 10, 2012, 04:04:05 PM

Title: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: ctkarslake on March 10, 2012, 04:04:05 PM
These folks probably have no clue what this is but it is definitely not what they say it is.  You gotta love the wonky pickguard, TRC and the one piece plywood-looking back.  Strangely enough the headstock inlay looks pretty good.  Maybe only the neck is authentic?  I've only seen one faked Taylor before.  What do you guys and gals think?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1990-Taylor-Acoustic-Guitar-Model-712-C-/160759855517?pt=Guitar&hash=item256e08b99d#ht_6753wt_932

weird I say. :o
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: sthompson on March 10, 2012, 04:06:33 PM

Wow....that 712c hurt my eyes....
st
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: mgap on March 10, 2012, 04:10:15 PM
Odd looking body for a GC, odd looking wood, odd looking cut away.  I sure would be interested in what the serial number is, but then there is not one I'll bet.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: andyi5 on March 10, 2012, 04:13:08 PM
Haha, that's great! I'd agree though, the neck does look original...  :)
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Bobe on March 10, 2012, 04:23:14 PM
Odd looking body for a GC, odd looking wood, odd looking cut away.  I sure would be interested in what the serial number is, but then there is not one I'll bet.

The serial number was mentioned in the ad:
"The serial number is 14030, found deep inside were the neck and body meet, I was unable to photograph."
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: S MS Picker on March 10, 2012, 04:28:53 PM
Not even for a boat paddle. It's got a hole in it. ::)Steve
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: michaelw on March 10, 2012, 04:37:12 PM
to me, it looks like a 91 710c, which had the Dan Crary signature model cutaway contour
non original truss cover & tuners buttons (especially the small button)
non-original pickguard
'altered, poor condition' ovation case ???

what would concern me is it looks like the back has been replaced with a single
piece of wood (no centerstrip purfling) & the body looks like it's been re-bound -
in the picture of the back, it looks like the neck heel (cap) is tilted to the right

it's a far cry from this one ;)
http://gratefulguitars.com/1990Taylor710C.htm (http://gratefulguitars.com/1990Taylor710C.htm)
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Bill Evans on March 10, 2012, 05:05:13 PM
Looks like someone's school project. ha-ha-ha.  Wonder who bought it?   Bill

Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: michaelw on March 10, 2012, 05:57:15 PM
Looks like someone's school project. ha-ha-ha.  Wonder who bought it?   Bill
wasn't me :)
this was a school project ... not mine, but the kid that built it was named 'Robert' ;)
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/41419/2302964520081788860S600x600Q85.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/45261/2843145050081788860S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: jalbert on March 10, 2012, 09:19:50 PM
The auction has been ended without a sale. In addition to what others have said, the finish looked suspicious, too. It's definitely not gloss on the back and sides, which is what one would expect.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: shaberd on March 11, 2012, 12:02:52 AM
The seller is still selling it. it just has a new listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1991-Taylor-Acoustic-Guitar-Serial-No-14030-/110839617081?_trksid=p4340.m444&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%252BLA%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6918046887995106887

Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Bill Evans on March 11, 2012, 04:16:44 AM
Surely someone should contact the seller and challenge their description? It is so obviously NOT an original! There must be some law which should prevent the seller advertising it like that?   Bill
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: ctkarslake on March 11, 2012, 09:07:06 AM
That serial #14030 doesn't check out far as I can tell, going from the Taylor website. I contacted them with my concerns and they sent back to me this:

"Hi, Thank you for this information. I have pulled my add and am doing more research. This is a pawn shop and I am not a musician. I went with the information given to me when the guitar was pawned. Thanks, again, Denise at Trader Stan."

One thing's for sure it's back up with basically the same info as before.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: michaelw on March 11, 2012, 10:48:33 AM
for 91, the label is where it should be & it is a valid serial #
http://taylorguitars.us/guitars/reference/dating.html (http://taylorguitars.us/guitars/reference/dating.html)
i feel that the seller is unaware of the original specs of the guitar,
which it would be easy enough to find the information on the internet

based on the other items that are for auction & have been sold in the past,
i don't think that musical instruments are an area they are most knowledgeable in

the squier strat signed by Slayer has a more accurate description, though :)
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Steve on March 11, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
Looks like someone tried toi build their own DCSM...
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on March 11, 2012, 12:50:39 PM
Very sketchy. The seller could have contacted Taylor about the guitar before offering it for sale if he wasn't sure about it.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Bill Evans on March 11, 2012, 02:27:18 PM
I wonder how much they paid the person who pawned it? Not a lot, I hope.   Bill
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: jjracer on March 12, 2012, 03:24:02 PM
I have a 95 Dan Creary Signature model, and from a distance it looks like one.  The differences I noted were, truss rod cover is wrong, mine came with grover tuners, the pick guard is too large,
I have two piece high polished back.  The back looks like satin finish and definately does not look like rosewood.

It doesn't appear to be a xx12, looks more like a xx10.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Tammany Tiger on March 13, 2012, 03:46:56 AM
to me, it looks like a 91 710c, which had the Dan Crary signature model cutaway contour.

No it doesn't. It is one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen on eBay. Any comment giving any credence at all to this listing is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to people unfamiliar with Taylor. Why get carried away writing about what it might resemble when it is clearly counterfeit?
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Bill Evans on March 13, 2012, 04:04:29 AM
to me, it looks like a 91 710c, which had the Dan Crary signature model cutaway contour.

No it doesn't. It is one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen on eBay. Any comment giving any credence at all to this listing is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to people unfamiliar with Taylor. Why get carried away writing about what it might resemble when it is clearly counterfeit?
I agree! It's a load of rubbish. You can see that from the photos alone. How can the seller (even if not familiar with Taylor guitars) not see that it is absolute crap? I posted a link to the Taylor Guitars Facebook page expressing my concerns, and the Admin removed it without comment. What does that tell you? Hmmm.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: mgap on March 13, 2012, 10:40:00 AM
Well one thing is for sure, it is not a 712 anything!  It is not a Taylor body.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2012, 10:53:32 AM
No it doesn't.

Yeah, it really does...

Quote
It is one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen on eBay.


I've seen far, far worse...

Quote
Any comment giving any credence at all to this listing is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to people unfamiliar with Taylor.

Hardly.

The quality of a fake absolutely should be discussed. Not doing so is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to people unfamiliar with Taylor...


Edited for inappropriate content...everyone is free to disagree with a comment, but please do so politely without criticism of someone else. Thank you.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Steve on March 13, 2012, 10:55:50 AM
I posted a link to the Taylor Guitars Facebook page expressing my concerns, and the Admin removed it without comment. What does that tell you? Hmmm.

It tells me that they don't want fake Taylors advertised.

What does it tell you?
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Martin on March 13, 2012, 11:47:45 AM
There are some older Taylors that have that sort of funky cutaway.

http://usedtaylorguitars.com/taylor-710-ltd-1991-model/7069

http://usedtaylorguitars.com/taylor-guitar-710c-limited-edition-crary-cutaway-2/6886

http://usedtaylorguitars.com/taylor-guitar-710c-limited-edition-crary-cutaway-4/8876

http://www.gryphonstrings.com/instpix/37864/37864.php

You can always change out a pickguard and a TRC, but the back of it looks laminated to me (not exactly bookmatched).  I'm assuming that Taylor has always book-matched their non-laminate guitars...right?
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Cindy on March 13, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
I posted a link to the Taylor Guitars Facebook page expressing my concerns, and the Admin removed it without comment. What does that tell you? Hmmm.

It tells me that they don't want fake Taylors advertised.

What does it tell you?

I posted a general comment once to Taylor's FB page, and it was deleted soon after it was posted. I don't care for FB's new look as it is difficult to easily navigate through all the posts, but please notice that the only time posts seem to be allowed on Taylor's page is as a comment in reference to one of Taylor's posts. New discussions always seem to disappear regardless of the content so I would assume your post would have been removed no matter what you wrote about. This isn't a complaint...I'm just stating what I've noticed to be fact. Perhaps they'd prefer discussions and all other content to be held over here. ;)
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: Cindy on March 13, 2012, 12:51:14 PM
For the record, I edited one post and deleted a couple others that were referencing what I deleted.
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: andyi5 on March 13, 2012, 02:22:35 PM
Must admit, changed my mind on this one after seeing some of the pics posted in this thread. Sure it's in the shoddiest condition, with the wrong pickguard, trc etc, and I don't know who's cheap table got sawn up to replace the back... but the top, sides and neck do look like the ancient remnants of a once high quality Dan Crary signature model...!
Title: Re: suspicious Taylor 712-C
Post by: michaelw on March 13, 2012, 07:16:11 PM
to me, it looks like a 91 710c, which had the Dan Crary signature model cutaway contour.

No it doesn't. It is one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen on eBay. Any comment giving any credence at all to this listing is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to people unfamiliar with Taylor. Why get carried away writing about what it might resemble when it is clearly counterfeit?
Tammany, i am curious exactly how familiar  you are with earlier
Taylor guitars, especially the ones made between 75 to 93 ???

http://usedtaylorguitars.com/taylor-710-ltd-1991-model/7069 (http://usedtaylorguitars.com/taylor-710-ltd-1991-model/7069)
http://dancrary.com/guitars.html (http://dancrary.com/guitars.html)

the neck is a genuine Taylor neck, as are the top & sides -
the non-standard parts i listed in a previous post & the concerns i brought up were the fact
that the back is not book-matched (it appears to me to be one-piece), the body looks to be
re-bound (with wood, rather than the correct black binding) & the neck alignment appears 'off'
to me, it looks like a 91 710c, which had the Dan Crary signature model cutaway contour
non original truss cover & tuners buttons (especially the small button)
non-original pickguard
'altered, poor condition' ovation case ???

what would concern me is it looks like the back has been replaced with a single
piece of wood (no centerstrip purfling) & the body looks like it's been re-bound -
in the picture of the back, it looks like the neck heel (cap) is tilted to the right ...
i currently own & have owned, Taylor from this era of production (santee)
as well as lemon grove models, so i am very  familar with the specs & appearance -
this guitar is  correct for a 91 model 710c & upon looking further,
it appears the nut, bridge pins & saddle have been replaced also

granted, the most common 'counterfeited' model i've seen on the internet has been the 710
(serial numbers used started with 1999 & all the rest of the digits being incorrect in # &
check digit designations) - i can't remember if the others were 'modified' ibanez or washburn
guitars, but i have posted about them on another forum in the past ... this guitar is not a 'fake'

a botched repair job, yes, but it is not a counterfeit guitar -
i believe the reason why the FB posts were deleted is that
there was no basis for them to be there on their page & i agree

anyone genuinely interested in the guitar should contact the seller &
refrain from making any further unsubstantiated statements

please feel free to PM me
thank you