Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF

Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: zeebow on February 07, 2023, 10:44:49 PM

Title: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on February 07, 2023, 10:44:49 PM
saw something rather interesting today, noticed that a few guitars from Taylor are now available to buy direct from Taylor.

This is a large shift from my experience with Taylor - when i first started playing Taylor in 2010, i remember them expressing how much their dealer network meant to them as a brand - Taylor wanted to focus on building quality guitars, and wanted to let the dealer be the customer facing representative.

that now appears to have shifted, as you can buy a 314ce, 814ce and even the mexican made gs mini rosewood direct from taylor.

just curious how you guys feel about this - but to me, it’s a bad look. i have always considered taylor to be passionate and stewards of the environment. this move just makes them appear to be chasing improving profit margins.

love to hear your discussion, bc maybe i’m just missing the point.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Earl on February 08, 2023, 11:52:22 AM
Zee, I looked through their web site and the only direct order I saw was for Taylor Ware items like straps, tuners, t-shirts, and accessories.  I found no mention of ordering guitars directly from the factory.  That would be a major departure from longstanding prior policy.  Perhaps I missed something too?

I am heavily into carbon fiber guitars these days instead of wood.  At least one of those brands have recently dropped their dealer network in favor of direct sales, and another brand went factory-direct a dozen years ago.  But CF is a small niche market.  All the brands of carbon fiber guitar & ukulele combined sells fewer instruments in a year than Taylor builds in a week or two.  The only wood guitars left now in my house are a 2007 Taylor 424-LTD in all koa, a 30+ year old Seagull M6, and an Alvarez ABT60 baritone.  Oh, and a Guild classical that was gifted to me but gets played maybe once a year.  Carbon fiber gets 95% of my play time.  I even have a composite ukulele, a Blackbird Farallon tenor uke.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on February 08, 2023, 12:45:08 PM
Zee, I looked through their web site and the only direct order I saw was for Taylor Ware items like straps, tuners, t-shirts, and accessories.  I found no mention of ordering guitars directly from the factory.  That would be a major departure from longstanding prior policy.  Perhaps I missed something too?

I am heavily into carbon fiber guitars these days instead of wood.  At least one of those brands have recently dropped their dealer network in favor of direct sales, and another brand went factory-direct a dozen years ago.  But CF is a small niche market.  All the brands of carbon fiber guitar & ukulele combined sells fewer instruments in a year than Taylor builds in a week or two.  The only wood guitars left now in my house are a 2007 Taylor 424-LTD in all koa, a 30+ year old Seagull M6, and an Alvarez ABT60 baritone.  Oh, and a Guild classical that was gifted to me but gets played maybe once a year.  Carbon fiber gets 95% of my play time.  I even have a composite ukulele, a Blackbird Farallon tenor uke.

Earl, i agree it’s a major departure. they silently added a “add to cart” button on their guitars

here is the link to a gs mini koa plus as an example
https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini-e-koa-plus

interestingly, the add to cart button is bright red, while the “see all dealers” is more subtle and underneath.

to me, it feels like they have lost touch with what made them successful (dealer network) and a lack of transparency (like why was this added with no communication)
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Earl on February 08, 2023, 03:10:02 PM
You are right.  There is also an "add to cart" button on the 412-R which I also checked for reference.  In addition to a sea-change of design philosophy (V-brace, new 500 series, 700 koa series, etc) there might also be big changes in how they operate.  I also have to agree with your final sentence too.  If I had a major investment as an official Taylor dealer, I would be VERY nervous right now.   :o
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: DennisG on February 08, 2023, 05:27:19 PM
I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Toucan256 on February 08, 2023, 08:50:44 PM
I was checking this out and when I  pulled up the models  for the GT, Urban Ash is no longer available.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on February 08, 2023, 09:16:31 PM
I was checking this out and when I  pulled up the models  for the GT, Urban Ash is no longer available.

rumor is, it’s discontinued.

also rumored that the GT model designation (811GT) will be reduced to just 811, to be consistent with their other number schemes

essentially, (and confusingly) the AD11 (sitka/walnut) seems to have replaced the GT urban ash.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: mgap on February 09, 2023, 07:44:17 AM
I checked out the 814ce model and went as far as choosing the shipping choices.  So they are shipping from Taylor.  I think this might show that Taylor is selling from their own store.  At the top of the check out cart it reads:
 PLEASE NOTE: TAYLOR SHIPS TO US CUSTOMERS ONLY.
At this time, we are only able to offer shipments to customers within the United States. Please consult our Dealer Locator to find an Authorized Taylor retailer near you.

It offered the 814ce, with hardshell case,
the cart has a promo code for discounts.
shipping options - Free shipping or 1 day or 2 day offerings

This will disrupt the dealer base in a contentious way I am sure.  All those loyal dealers get the stab in the back, and we don't get W&S anymore.  Now I live in an area that does not have a dealer near me, I wonder if anybody else that lives in an area that has a brick and mortar dealer can still go through a check out cart like I did, or will they be diverted to a dealer?   
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: donlyn on February 09, 2023, 09:35:36 PM
Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer

I do believe that the pandemic was a direct cause of many stores folding/ downsizing/ struggling/ and generally losing business overall (pick one or more). Given the switch to on-line sales and the resulting backlogs, the entire business seems backward to me right now. Still a couple of stores I can shop at, and haven't done any on-line sales. Local Guitar Center even recently built a dedicated Taylor room, but the selection was kind of limited, at least so far.

The only question I have would be "will Taylor on-line charge a higher price than their dealer network" ?

This also may be something to make up for some lost sales when people could not 'try and buy' or 'play before pay' during the pandemic. There is a whole new dynamic now in buying guitars. Maybe they are forecasting a sea change in the future way guitars are bought and sold and just trying to get ahead of the wave where the alternative is total wipeout.

And there are still stores that do not have an agreement with Taylor because they would have to carry too much inventory for their size and business model. Taylor dealers are required to by 'X' amount of inventory and may not have a lot of choices available. Small music shops around like "Mr. Music" can not sell new Taylor product anyway because they are not an official Taylor dealer. That's another end of the sale spectrum. But they always seem to have some nice used Taylor models in stock, in addition to Martins and others.

Just musing.

Don

Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Edward on February 10, 2023, 01:04:27 PM
The "problem" with a guitar --or any instrument for that matter-- is that they are not blenders.  Who could have ever predicted that we'd have a literal vending machine to purchase a car ...that would have been crazy talk back in the day!  The "I want that model" and the ability to find it optioned and priced to one's own liking is prevalent now more than ever.  And the post-covid-crisis world we now live in has hastened us to that end. 

Well there is no shortage of those who eschew this business model and insist on trying first because a guitar ain't no generic machine.  We know this.  But one of the things Taylor does very well is read the temp in the room.  Time will tell whether this is a good move on the whole, and the mothership will act accordingly, as they typically have done.  The marketplace will speak, no doubt.

Edward
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 12, 2023, 03:19:44 PM
Interesting that this is the first I'm hearing of this, but I am not surprised.

Over the years a number of manufacturers we've dealt with have decided to go direct, and while not setting the world on fire with their sales, they are surviving. In every case the brands that went direct so far weren't doing that well for us, or other dealers I'm guessing, so going direct might have been a last ditch move by those manufacturers to stay in business. Taylor is different from the others of course, but like the others they will find out soon enough that selling direct is a lot of work.

When we launched our site some 20 years ago, we were one of the first to post actual photos of guitars, a process that can take an hour per guitar. Today people expect to see photos of the actual guitar they are buying so manufacturers selling direct will need to photograph every guitar. People also like to discuss their purchase before making a decision which can take up a lot of man hours. And of course unlike selling to dealers, manufacturers selling direct will need to accept returns and figure out who will cover the hundreds of dollars in round trip shipping, which is something they are definitely not used to dealing with. In short, manufacturers selling direct will need to offer every service their dealers have been offering, including discounting, if they want to make sales.

Good news for guitar dealers is that there is no shortage of manufacturers who want nothing to do with direct sales and know how to keep their dealer network happy and profitable. Helene and I have been talking retirement and selling the business while we are still young, so I probably won't be part of it, but I believe the future of guitar sales through dealers has a very bright future. Today's dealers need to be adept at both online and in store sales, but since the Covid lock downs demand for walk in sales is way up. Something most of us didn't see coming.

Funny thing, when I decided to buy my first expensive acoustic, I went into the Hollywood GC thinking I would buy a Martin D-28, but after playing a bunch of guitars I fell in love with a Taylor 714ce, a brand that I never would have considered if my only options were limited to online shopping.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2023, 11:09:09 PM
Wow, so great to hear from you, Ted!  Big thanks for chiming in and lending your thoughts.  On the one hand, congrats on what sounds like an early retirement.  On the other hand, the guitar community will be losing you guys as you were always a superb resource and have a fabulous shop that I've had the pleasure to strum in.

You are spot on about folks wanting not only to see actual pics of the guitar when online shopping, but asking questions and getting feedback is essential to the buyer's experience.  Likewise, having a store with great stock really can surprise.  I dig your story about your 714 as it mimicks mine.  Way back in the day I crossed paths with a GA7e completely unexpectedly.  I had never wanted a Taylor (though I owned a Baby T as my traveler, it never prompted me to check out the company as I knew next to nothing about them).  This chance meeting with a GA7 floored me.  That was the guitar that tipped the scales for me.  So yessir, being able to try before you buy is huge for some, hopefully for many others.

Edward
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 13, 2023, 02:46:33 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet.  ;)

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on February 13, 2023, 03:07:29 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet.  ;)

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.

Great hearing from you Ted - you were one of the pioneers of selling guitars online w/ excellence w/ excellent photography and using the internet to touch the customer. Your business has been highly regarded and a pilllar of the guitar community for quite a long time!

There’s been a lot of dialogue across multiple social media platforms - and it’s been interesting to see some of the dialogue that has been going on.

I’d say it’s a split of folks who don’t understand the issue w/ manufacturers selling direct, some that see the issue, and some that are ok w/ taylor going direct.

I def find the lack of transparency shocking - and am trying to do my part, in educating the general public why taylor selling direct is not a positive thing for the guitar community.

I hope that whatever choice you make in regards to retirement - leads you to continued happiness, you have to do what is right for you and your wife - just know, that there are countless guitar enthusiasts who have appreciated what you have done for the industry!

Cheers!
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Earl on February 13, 2023, 06:44:05 PM
Ted, congrats on exploring retirement.  I am there with you in that I plan to close up my engineering shop in roughly 18-24 months.  A couple of attempts to sell to other companies have not panned out - yet. 

I have been a happy customer of yours for a Blackbird Lucky 13 and a Farallon ukulele, and both transactions have been a pleasure.  I'm realistically done buying instruments at this point, but it is always nice to know a good shop to refer people to, even if I am not buying.  Regarding brands, I had a similar experience.  I was aware of Taylor as a company when I bought my so-called "lifetime" guitar in 1990 but I was firmly imprinted on Martin.  Later I became a convert to the Taylor fold and got rid of all the Martin guitars.  Martin could not compete with the nice neck and playability of the Taylor brand.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: davwir on February 14, 2023, 01:31:13 AM
Also happy to see Ted chime in here.
And likewise, I went into a guitar shop back in 1995 to buy a Martin D28, the salesman handed me a Taylor 810, and that changed my future path as well. Unquestionably that couldn't have happened without a real establishment, and a dealer who encouraged customers to try other things.

I am happy to say I have made some lifelong friends with dealers in many parts of the country over the years, and I do kinda see this as a bit of an insult to them; not informing them fully beforehand, or even announcing it publicly just seems... off... I guess you'd call it a "soft launch", maybe to test the waters.

Me, I want my (what I would consider fairly expensive) instruments to look amazing, as well as sound amazing..
No chance Im ever buying one sight and sound unseen, personally..
And Id much rather give my business to someone I know and like, and has helped me for years already.

All this being said, they absolutely have a right to do this, and I even fully get why they would want to try.
It is a new world. We all have forsaken the malls I grew up with, for online sales. And I do believe you cant try to stop progress, evolution and technology.
If even a small percent of guitar dealer business gets cannibalized, it will hurt what is already a landscape that seems to be struggling, and that would be a shame.

Glad I grew up in the era of guitar shops. When I was a kid we would would plan all week to make a weekend pilgrimage to best shops within a few hours to play and drool over the best stuff. Some of my fave memories.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 14, 2023, 11:38:57 AM
Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet.  ;)

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.

Great hearing from you Ted - you were one of the pioneers of selling guitars online w/ excellence w/ excellent photography and using the internet to touch the customer. Your business has been highly regarded and a pilllar of the guitar community for quite a long time!

There’s been a lot of dialogue across multiple social media platforms - and it’s been interesting to see some of the dialogue that has been going on.

I’d say it’s a split of folks who don’t understand the issue w/ manufacturers selling direct, some that see the issue, and some that are ok w/ taylor going direct.

I def find the lack of transparency shocking - and am trying to do my part, in educating the general public why taylor selling direct is not a positive thing for the guitar community.

I hope that whatever choice you make in regards to retirement - leads you to continued happiness, you have to do what is right for you and your wife - just know, that there are countless guitar enthusiasts who have appreciated what you have done for the industry!

Cheers!

Thanks for the kind words, Z.

It's a fact that folks prefer and greatly benefit from being able to try guitars, which is where manufacturers with a strong dealer network will have a huge edge in the coming years. Facebook ads and pretty pictures can't compete with hundreds of guitar stores and thousands of their employees talking up, or even downplaying a brand. And given that the costs associated with selling direct will quickly eat up any added profit, selling direct can't possibly be a first choice for any manufacturer.

Some builders try to have it both ways of course, selling direct while maintaining a dealer network, but most store owners frown on this. Chuck Surac, the founder and former CEO of Sweetwater touched on this a few years ago. Here are his thoughts:

The Downside Of Manufacturer Direct Sales
Why a “click to buy” button threatens to undermine longstanding retail relationships
by Chuck Surac

In recent months, I’ve noticed a disturbing trend of certain manufacturers selling their products direct to end-customers, bypassing the “traditional” rep/dealer chain. I have deep reservations about this trend, not just for its impact on my company, Sweetwater, but also for all retailers, reps, manufacturers, the m.i. industry, and the end-customers we serve. This is a practice that we must address now. Most of the 5,000 or so retailers have elected not to create their own private labels to compete with the manufacturers; it is a slap in the face for manufacturers not to offer us the same respect.

It’s no secret that sustained success in our industry is built on relationships and loyalty. Those two powerful words reflect strong fundamental values. If having an “Add to Cart” button on your site garners you a few sales but ultimately strays from those values and damages or destroys relationships and loyalty among your retailers, is it really worth it? Trust matters.

I can see where some manufacturers might believe there are benefits to selling direct. But when we take a closer look, those seeming benefits aren’t as large as they appear, and in fact ultimately will cost the manufacturer. One definite cost will be the loss of support from retailers. One would have to assume that even if they don’t drop the lines that sell direct, retailers will shift their focus to selling brands that don’t sell direct. Manufacturers have said they expect growth of 1% to 2% using direct sales. But the loss of even a few good retailers in response will eliminate that growth and more, resulting in a net loss.

For decades, manufacturers have been building a supply chain of retailers to serve the needs of both the manufacturers and existing and potential end-customers. This chain works. The key to its success is that everyone has their area of expertise and can focus on doing that job well. The manufacturer designs and builds high-quality products, often with input and feedback from retailers who are constantly interfacing with end-customers. The retailers focus on selling the products, which includes marketing, proactive sales outreach, order fulfillment, after-the-sale support, repair, returns, and so much more, all of which leads to a great customer experience.

Putting up a website with an “Add to Cart” button is just one tiny part of providing a customer experience. Good retailers know this and work hard to do what manufacturers are not set up to do: deal effectively with end-customers. Good retailers are intentional about every aspect of a sale, from confirming the order to getting the item shipped quickly to following up after the sale. Plus, retailers are uniquely qualified to assemble, quote, and sell systems and packages, whereas individual manufacturers cannot adequately service this need at all–and selling direct completely undermines this massive market opportunity.

When a manufacturer sells a product direct, the retail part of the equation is obviated, and there is no compelling customer experience. Simply put, manufacturers are not in the retail business. Pretty much every manufacturer we challenge about selling direct says, “It’s such a small part of our business, it doesn’t even matter.” That statement alone proves that the manufacturer has no idea what they’re doing. A good retailer knows that every single customer matters. Every interaction matters. Every experience the customer has can go viral–either positively or negatively. But beyond that, if it doesn’t matter, then why do it at all and risk losing customers and dealers?

What can a manufacturer do to drive sales for customers who visit their site or inquire directly? There are many options. For example, use “Buy Now” buttons that link to retailer product pages. Use services such as Omacro to connect to retailers on the web. Keep “Where to Buy” links updated–it’s amazing how many companies don’t do this. Partner with your retailers for better training and marketing. Support dealer initiatives that support your brand and products. Above all, simply communicate with your dealers!

Fortunately, most manufacturers understand the situation and have been loyal to the mutual support synergy provided by the retailer chain. They know that they’re manufacturers, not retailers, and they understand the benefits of doing their job to the best of their ability, while allowing retailers to do our job to the best of ours. This proven partnership provides the best experience and support for our end-customers, which keeps them coming back to purchase again and again.

When a manufacturer chooses to blindly discard this partnership, everyone loses. I can assure you that here at Sweetwater, we are closely monitoring which manufacturers are choosing to go direct and will be making quick decisions about the lines we will be carrying and supporting based on that. I encourage all of the more than 5,000 retailers in our industry to take a close look at which manufacturers are supporting you and which are choosing to compete with you, and to decide who you will support accordingly.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 14, 2023, 11:49:44 AM
Ted, congrats on exploring retirement.  I am there with you in that I plan to close up my engineering shop in roughly 18-24 months.  A couple of attempts to sell to other companies have not panned out - yet. 

I have been a happy customer of yours for a Blackbird Lucky 13 and a Farallon ukulele, and both transactions have been a pleasure.  I'm realistically done buying instruments at this point, but it is always nice to know a good shop to refer people to, even if I am not buying.  Regarding brands, I had a similar experience.  I was aware of Taylor as a company when I bought my so-called "lifetime" guitar in 1990 but I was firmly imprinted on Martin.  Later I became a convert to the Taylor fold and got rid of all the Martin guitars.  Martin could not compete with the nice neck and playability of the Taylor brand.

Great to hear from you, Earl. Hopefully you are still enjoying those Blackbirds. Interestingly enough, Blackbird has always sold direct while maintaining a very small dealer network. Given that they only build a few hundred instruments a year we always felt honored that they would let us be one of those dealers.I own the first Savoy and have a collection of all the discontinued carbon fiber models. Blackbird products are top notch.

And hey, enjoy your retirement.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 14, 2023, 12:04:46 PM
Hey Dave, Helene and I were just thinking of you and remembered that gift certificate to El Coyote. Thanks for dinner, brother.  :)

We certainly spent many hours talking, playing and drooling over some gorgeous Taylors at LA Guitar Sales. Sounds like Taylor will loose you if they go direct only but I'm not sure if that is the way they are going. I called and left a message to my rep yesterday morning to discuss this but as of this writing I have not heard back. What ever they decide I'm sure it won't affect the quality of their guitars. I just added a "golden era" mid 90's 912 to my collection and it is amazing.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on February 14, 2023, 06:33:11 PM
there’s been a lot of interesting dialogue over various forums and social media platforms.

the guys at casino guitars do an excellent job communicating how Guitar Manufacturers selling direct can erode the quality of the guitar community,

https://youtu.be/j42jHrymw7o
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Frettingflyer on February 17, 2023, 09:24:56 AM
Ted- great to see you on here. I remember you and Helene coming in on a Friday when I was in town so I could try the CF stock you had. It has led to quite a few purchases and a couple sales with you, all very pleasant experiences. I wish you well if you decide to retire, in the meantime I will still recommend LA Guitar Sales to anyone who asks. Customer service you couldn’t get from a manufacturer.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Ted @ LA Guitar Sales on February 21, 2023, 04:47:56 PM
Ted- great to see you on here. I remember you and Helene coming in on a Friday when I was in town so I could try the CF stock you had. It has led to quite a few purchases and a couple sales with you, all very pleasant experiences. I wish you well if you decide to retire, in the meantime I will still recommend LA Guitar Sales to anyone who asks. Customer service you couldn’t get from a manufacturer.

Thanks for the kind words, glad we were able to fuel your GAS..  ;)
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Gabrielobrien on March 03, 2023, 11:56:50 AM
I relayed some of the common questions and concerns I’ve seen in various groups to Keith Brawley at Taylor. They asked if we could turn it into a Q&A style post on their blog: https://blog.taylorguitars.com/qa-on-taylor-selling-guitars-online
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: ScottSD on March 03, 2023, 02:06:06 PM
Thanks for the link Gabriel. 

     Good read.  Since you've got the hook up, I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

Scott
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Earl on March 04, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
.....I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

A great big ditto to this.  Between the outrageous hyperbole at the introduction of V-bracing and having ES2 propagate like a virus through every new Taylor guitar that I have seen in person, I am out of the market.  Neither does anything for me, but cannot be avoided.  No matter how cool a new guitar may seem, I'm just no longer interested, and I have to take any marketing-speak with a salt block (not just a grain of salt).  It could be simple aging out of what's "cool and trendy" however.  Good thing that I acquired mine during the golden age of X-bracing and ES1.3 - the apex IMO.  (Yes, I realize that one can always order a Taylor without pickup, but "play before pay" is my motto.  All are consistently well built, but each piece of wood is different.  Fro example, I have tried enough koa Taylor guitars to know that many do not "make the cut" tonally).
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: asguitar1 on March 09, 2023, 06:15:20 PM
I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?

I heard this is indeed true.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: zeebow on March 10, 2023, 07:00:00 PM
I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?

I heard this is indeed true.

it is confirmed to be NOT true. the guitars ordered from Taylor’s website is shipped from “strategically placed warehouses.” and NOT from dealers
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Gabrielobrien on March 25, 2023, 01:29:35 AM
Thanks for the link Gabriel. 

     Good read.  Since you've got the hook up, I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

Scott

No, not that I'm aware of, but I don't work there so I wouldn't necessarily know that until a little before it launched. I generally know about things a few months to six months out, though there are things that aren't out yet I've known about for years too so.

V-class bracing is here to stay. I think by and large the naysayers aren't giving those guitars a chance to open up and hear them. My BE 517 is 4+ years old (got it before they came out) and my loaner 814ce DLX is from 2018 - they're outstanding. People play a brand new guitar at the store and dump on it, but even after a month they're so much more open. The biggest benefit to me is the linear decay and not hearing notes warble in and out of tune as they diminish.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: ScottSD on March 25, 2023, 03:12:22 AM
V-class bracing is here to stay. I think by and large the naysayers aren't giving those guitars a chance to open up and hear them. My BE 517 is 4+ years old (got it before they came out) and my loaner 814ce DLX is from 2018 - they're outstanding. People play a brand new guitar at the store and dump on it, but even after a month they're so much more open. The biggest benefit to me is the linear decay and not hearing notes warble in and out of tune as they diminish.

I own a 2019 714ce that's V braced, bought it new.  It does have superior sustain, no denying that.  Do I think it sounds any better than my other Taylor's?   Nope, it's currently my least played guitar.  I've played it quite a bit so it's had time to open up.  I find it too easy to overdrive the B string into this annoying pingy harmonic.  I'm also not a fan of the way the bracing telegraphs through the top.  So, my opinion wasn't formulated in a vacuum.  For my money, V bracing is a solution in search of a problem.

I'm still a huge fan of the brand and hey, it's their company so they're totally welcome to make whatever kind of guitar they want.  For now, I'll hang out in their used market...

Thanks for taking time to answer my question.  I appreciate having you on the forum.

Scott
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Frettingflyer on March 25, 2023, 07:29:48 PM
I have both v-class and previous bracings and like them both. My 322e is my most played guitar these days and I do notice the sustain and the linear decay mentioned above. I also still like playing all my guitars and the unique voices they have. The most direct comparison I have is the 322 vs 522 and while the 322 has better sustain, the 522 is just a touch “richer” in it’s voice, but that may be the 12 fret speaking.
I am glad they are making the v-class, but also glad I still have my older Taylors too. All that said, I have bought most of the guitars I ever will, so they need to market to a younger crowd. Now, about that 722….
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Gabrielobrien on April 11, 2023, 03:56:19 PM
V-class bracing is here to stay. I think by and large the naysayers aren't giving those guitars a chance to open up and hear them. My BE 517 is 4+ years old (got it before they came out) and my loaner 814ce DLX is from 2018 - they're outstanding. People play a brand new guitar at the store and dump on it, but even after a month they're so much more open. The biggest benefit to me is the linear decay and not hearing notes warble in and out of tune as they diminish.

I own a 2019 714ce that's V braced, bought it new.  It does have superior sustain, no denying that.  Do I think it sounds any better than my other Taylor's?   Nope, it's currently my least played guitar.  I've played it quite a bit so it's had time to open up.  I find it too easy to overdrive the B string into this annoying pingy harmonic.  I'm also not a fan of the way the bracing telegraphs through the top.  So, my opinion wasn't formulated in a vacuum.  For my money, V bracing is a solution in search of a problem.

I'm still a huge fan of the brand and hey, it's their company so they're totally welcome to make whatever kind of guitar they want.  For now, I'll hang out in their used market...

Thanks for taking time to answer my question.  I appreciate having you on the forum.

Scott

Yeah V-class is simply a different flavor. That's how Andy Powers describes it. I agree sustain is better and the biggest change for me is the linear note decay, which is huge in recording.  I also think the ability to voice guitars specific to wood has really changed. The new koa 700s are a massive improvement over other koa guitars IMO. I normally don't enjoy koa or maple all that much and now I do. And a solid maple top like the AD27e Flametop was unthinkable till a year ago. Is it gonna be for everyone? No. Nothing is gonna be for everyone, but Taylor as a company is about forward direction and trying to find ways to build smarter and improve guitars. That's how they started. Every change along the way has met pushback, like the NT neck, cutaways, etc. That's always the case. They're always made their own way and will continue to.
Title: Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
Post by: Craig on April 26, 2023, 03:52:06 PM
I went through that exact process with Ted for a custom GS shipped to the UK and I sure wouldn't have bought it without their personal touch.

On a related note, here in the UK a couple of years ago Mesa Boogie announced large price cuts because they were going to do their own distribution, they've been pretty much unavailable here
 ever since.

Craig