Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: ClassicRock on May 27, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
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I thought there would already be a thread on this exciting news but, I didn’t see it.
To me, as a Koa luster, this is a real coup by Taylor. They had too many RW guitars and apparently, their reforesting activities are paying off in a much greater supply of Koa. To put together these beautiful models at a price point about $2K less than the K series is a stroke of genius. They will sell a boatload of these.
I’ve seen a couple of dealer UTs but the real feedback will be from Taylor players here. So when you get your hands on one, let’s hear about it.
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I have owned two koa Taylor guitars, and played many. I still have the all-koa 424-LTD in my signature. I consider this exciting news, and would be interested in the 527 myself, if I were not done buying period. Taylor seems to do a better job with koa than most factory builders, but still I would caution that playing it in person is necessary. Koa is a highly variable wood. I have played several high-end Taylor koa guitars that were "meh" especially for the cost, not even beating out my 114ce tonally at nearly 10X the price.
The 714 used to be rosewood/cedar, then eventually became rosewood/spruce. When they added the 414-R to the line, there were multiple rosewood bodies it confused the selection. This should be a good move on their part. I look forward to playing one during my next semi-annual visit to the LGS. (When you are really done buying, there isn't much reason to walk into a music store across town).
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I saw a couple at Wildwood, then got the email. Alamo Music also did a nice video explaining the 700 series, which now includes the koa GA and GC. They also explained some rational from Andy. I'm thinking it will do them well. If I didn't already have my beloved K24ce, I'd be looking more seriously at them.
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Taylor's marketing on this new 700 series has been very confusing to me. Seems like there is a standard language Taylor wants used on all of the videos I have seen on these new guitars.
Obviously the concept of "organic" and "unfiltered" is what is being highlighted. Yet I can't seem to understand what that means other than the fact that they are using a thinner finish on the wood compared to the traditional K series.
Also, everybody talks about this being a "different" sound from koa, but nobody seems clear on what the difference IS. And WHY.
I also find it interesting that almost every dealer describes the wood sets as, basically, not as nice as their traditional koa sets that are more figured, and that the new 700 series is a home for the less desirable sets. Obviously this would be a main reason for the price difference compared to the K series, but seems odd that they would outright denote that this is a substandard set of wood they are using.
Anybody else get something different?
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I wouldn’t call it “sub-standard”. Remember, the Koa is graded on appearance only, not sound quality. And while I’m sure there is sound variation from piece to piece, I’m not sure how to predict that unless maybe you tone-tap every piece which isn’t practical for a mass production factory. By calling this wood “select” they try to make a differentiation from their K Series which is now a $2000 premium. Quite a stretch in my HO.
As to why it sounds different, they talk about different back bracing and the finish, which is a big deal. I owned an early V-braced K24ce which has the 6 mil coating. That is so thick, the guitar seems encased in a protective shell. It looks great but cannot help but inhibit tone. So I like the direction of the 2 mil finish.
Frankly, I also like the look of this guitar. The burst finish, especially on the BE is too dark for my tastes. I also prefer the fretboard markers to the vine motif. As you can tell, I’m not that big on bling.
Taylor’s investment in Hawaiian land and reforestation is now paying big dividends. They were getting more wood than they knew what to do with. They have come to own the Koa wood niche of the guitar market. Expanding their Koa offering in the direction of a much less costly guitar will dramatically increase sales of Koa. Good on Taylor, and BT’s foresight.
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I appreciate your response, CR. Just for the record, I was not calling the wood sets used on these substandard; that was the message I was hearing on videos promoting the new line. And, I do think this guitar is quite interesting and I would love to play one. I was just questioning the marketing approach being used to describe this new line.
If you ever get your hands on one, I would love to hear your report.
Happy Memorial Day!
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We’ve got a Sam Ash here who is a big supporter of Taylor and has by far the widest selection. I may just wander in there one of these days.
And Happy Memorial Day to you and all as well. My Memorial weekends are never in question as an annual attendee of the Indy 500…..it’s Christmas in May for me!
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Here is AP’s explanation of the wood, bracing, finish etc. “the voicing” as he likes to call it. He repeatedly calls it quarter-sawn. Skip to 43:30 unless you want to hear about him being appointed President/CEO. I wonder if the ESOP has any say in how much he’s paid. LOL
https://youtu.be/wckVIgo4ohk
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Taylor's marketing on this new 700 series has been very confusing to me. Seems like there is a standard language Taylor wants used on all of the videos I have seen on these new guitars.
Obviously the concept of "organic" and "unfiltered" is what is being highlighted. Yet I can't seem to understand what that means other than the fact that they are using a thinner finish on the wood compared to the traditional K series.
Also, everybody talks about this being a "different" sound from koa, but nobody seems clear on what the difference IS. And WHY.
I also find it interesting that almost every dealer describes the wood sets as, basically, not as nice as their traditional koa sets that are more figured, and that the new 700 series is a home for the less desirable sets. Obviously this would be a main reason for the price difference compared to the K series, but seems odd that they would outright denote that this is a substandard set of wood they are using.
Anybody else get something different?
Yeah, I got something different. To your point, organic and unfiltered aren't very helpful or descriptive for guitar tone. I would ignore that.
That thinner finish will increase resonance for sure. Thinner is always better tone-wise, but it's a tradeoff with "more susceptible to dings".
As far as “a different sound for Koa”, I personally would agree with that assessment. I mean, as a tip, never listen to a guitar video without using headphones, earbuds, or amplified speakers. But assuming you do that, this koa treatment, which likely mostly comes down to bracing tweaks, to my ears sounds a lot like Rosewood without the midrange dip. And usually everyone talks about koa "opening up" over time, because a lot of koa guitars sound a bit like they have a blanket over them starting out. But these don't sound like that. Pretty interesting - if I were Taylor's marketer, I would say this sounds like an opened up koa guitar.
Calling the wood "Select" just positions it appearance-wise between their higher end koa models and their lower end koa models such as the GS-Mini and Baby models.
My curly figured koa GS-Mini being an exception to the rule. 8)
(https://i.imgur.com/FmJsNZb.jpg?1)
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Guitarsan, apologize for the delay, and thank you so much for your response. Everything you said makes sense-- perhaps Taylor should hire you to do their marketing!
What a great figuring on that GS mini. I thought I had a pretty nice one until I saw that one.
Had I not already owned a K24ce, I would definitely consider one of these 700 series guitars.
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We had reason to stop by my LGS today, and there was a new 724ce on the wall. It’s koa looked fine, both back and top, with just a bit of light sap wood at the center seam. Played very nicely and had the crisp voice of a brand new koa guitar. Some might call it too trebly, but it will mellow and mature over the next couple of years. The satin finish is nice too, and I’m a fan of satin. All in all, I call it a winner. I am not looking at any more new wood guitars - or guitars in general - but as they say in my native Midwest, “a guy could do a lot worse”. ;)
The store owner said that today was his first time seeing it, and he did not expect it to hang there very long. In fact if it had gone to the other store an employee there would likely have bought it before it ever saw the sales floor. I wasn’t so fond of the sticker price, but I have not been looking at new guitars for about two years now. I am perfectly happy with my 2007 era 424-LTD, but inquiring minds needed to know.
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I ran across a 724ce yesterday and if I didn’t have the K24ce BE I would be all over it! Fantastic sound, and more balanced than I expected for not being played in. Nice addition to the line, and as Earl said, you could do a lot worse.
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I ran across a 724ce yesterday and if I didn’t have the K24ce BE I would be all over it! Fantastic sound, and more balanced than I expected for not being played in. Nice addition to the line, and as Earl said, you could do a lot worse.
That sounds great. I'm going to refrain from trying one...I might like it. ::)
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That sounds great. I'm going to refrain from trying one...I might like it. ::)
Probably the safest bet. You WILL like it, and it isn't cheap.
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I ran across a 724ce yesterday and if I didn’t have the K24ce BE I would be all over it! Fantastic sound, and more balanced than I expected for not being played in. Nice addition to the line, and as Earl said, you could do a lot worse.
That sounds great. I'm going to refrain from trying one...I might like it. ::)
Better stay away, I actually was wondering if I could sell my BE and get one without spending more. My son, who doesn’t play at all, was with me and requested a song I like to play, but played on that guitar. This just after playing a Yamaha Transacoustic with effects on, and the 724 blew away the Yamaha, just incredible sound even with no effects. My son heard this too, and I would not have guessed he had the ear for it…
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Koa is a highly variable wood. I have played several high-end Taylor koa guitars that were "meh" especially for the cost, not even beating out my 114ce tonally at nearly 10X the price.
Sadly I would say this says more about Taylor than Koa as a tonewood. I've played many Koa guitars that have been consistently brilliant, James Goodall and Dana Bourgeois as examples. The problem with Taylor is that they are built to spec - therefore there is less hand voicing and working with the wood to bring out the best in each piece, but the upside is that you can get them at a cheaper price than Goodalls and Bourgeois. That's why you get random variations in terms of tonal quality in Taylors. I too have had the same experience as you where a 300 series Koa can sound better than a Builder's Edition series. I did get to play a 722ce the other day and the tone sounded fine. Not fine enough for me to have any interest in buying it, but not bad. Unfortunately the rosette was a bit too much for my liking aesthetically though (it looked like abalam with lots of tiny pieces of multicolored abalone reminiscing of a teenage girl's glittery nails rather than the marbled floor look of solid abalone/pearl) - that was one thing I liked about the last 700 series and its all wood aesthetic, sometimes less is more.
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It is the nature of the beast for factory guitars. A small operation like Goodall can tap tone and adjust thickness and even bracing for a specific piece of wood to bring out its best character. But a factory has to build to specifications. What the factory gains in economy of scale (price) comes at the price of the ability to adapt for individual slices of wood. I'm a big koa fan and really into Hawaiian music, but you absolutely must test drive specific guitars. I got lucky with my 424 LTD. It was mail ordered because I discovered them about six months after the series was introduced. But a store in TN still had three of them and the owner and I chatted at length. There were good pictures posted of all three and he played them all. I told him to choose the one with the best tone to send because all three were visually acceptable to me. That worked out well. They had a good return policy but it was not needed.
Probably the single best acoustic guitar that I have ever played was a koa/spruce Goodall concert jumbo during a visit to Anchorage, AK about ten years ago. I had to swallow hard at the significant price -- more than twice what I had ever paid for any other guitar -- and decided to sleep on it. Going back the next day with credit card in hand, it was sold. Someone else agreed with my assessment and did not hesitate. Conversely, I had long lusted after a Goodall Royal Hawaiian model. They have premium koa and lots of bling, nicely done in abalone and shell. When I finally got to play one at Buffalo Brothers a few years ago, it was very underwhelming. Here are some pictures:
https://www.dreamguitars.com/shop/2005-goodall-kgcck-all-koa-3432.html
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I recently purchased a new 724ce Koa guitar and wanted to provide some feedback as a new member of this forum. I have owned many Taylor guitars over the years and seem drawn to Koa as a top wood with a 224ce K-DLX, Mini GS Koa Plus, T5z Koa custom and a spruce top 317e. Koa seems to provide a balanced bottom end along with tremendous harmonics that gets better as you play them. The 724ce is a totally different guitar. I'm not sure if its the select Koa wood, V bracing or very thin satin finish. This guitar sounds wonderfully balanced and clearer than any other Taylor acoustic. When you finger pick or strum the strings, the wood really vibrates and feels distinctly different. None of my other Taylor acoustics come alive this way when you play them. It's caused me to practice and play longer. It's been a real pleasure to enjoy the sound it produces. An external mic records the tone and harmonics really well. It also sounds great with a llittle reverb through the AER-60 amp. This amp is like listening to a window inside your guitar.
It's a fresh sound from Andy Powers at Taylor. Nice bottom end along with refreshing clarity without an overly bright top end. Sometimes when I strum it, it sounds like a 12 string guitar. I recommend auditioning this guitar if you are interested in a new acoustic from Taylor.
Be well,
Richard Clompus
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Welcome Richard! Nice report.
I'm not looking for any new guitars any more, or any new wood guitars, as I am actively downsizing. But I will keep my eyes peeled if I happen to see one in a store. Koa is always intriguing to me.