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Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Topic started by: acmeseed on February 10, 2012, 10:42:36 PM

Title: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: acmeseed on February 10, 2012, 10:42:36 PM

Hello,

I wonder what kind of battery life you are getting out of your ES system? My 2011 814ce is giving me about 20 hours and I am wondering if this is the norm.

I got caught in the middle of a service dead in the water, I now replace the battery on a regular schedule.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Edward on February 11, 2012, 12:16:03 AM

Hey Mike,

Well, I never counted.  There are band rehearsals, then play, plus whatever misc plugged-in time.  How about this: lots.  :)
No really, I get lots of life out of a standard Duracell.  That said, as standard practice you should ALWAYS either replace with a new batt or check batt with a VOM before going live.  That's just par for the course.  With instruments, we just check batts; with voc mics, we just replace em.  SOP really ...otherwise, it can get, um, embarrassing :)
And one other note, do NOT use Rayovacs ...dang things barely fit inside the ES compartment, just enough to get STUCK! ...ask me how I know!!

Oh, btw, all those old batts that aren't truly dead will last forever in tuners, not to mention kids' RC toys :)

Edward

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Magster24 on February 11, 2012, 07:17:58 AM

Taylor Guitars has stated that a standard 9V should last ~ 40 hours.  Not sure if that changed when the newer 2010 ES upgrade came about.  I think the old AA system would only last ~ 20 hours.

This may be obvious, but the clock runs whenever a cable is plugged in regardless of whether you're playing or not.

Either way, 20 hours to me seems a bit short, not sure if it's something to look into.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Fellrunner on February 11, 2012, 07:32:27 AM

I use duracells and seem to be getting somewhere close to 40 hours (certainly a lot less than my old Fishman system) - both my guitars are the same.  I also got caught out mid service last week - one moment the guitar was working normally the next it just went dead with virtually no warning.  From now on I will be monitoring how long I play my guitars between battery changes much more closely and if in any doubt put in a new one before a service or gig (and change back to the old one for practicing until it dies).  I am also making sure I don't leave it plugged in when not playing, even if I just take a 15 min coffee break.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Gutch on February 11, 2012, 11:13:21 AM

It's easy with the new ES to see where you are.  Plug the cord into the guitar, then check the LED on the inside of the guitar.  Is it lit, then you should be good.  Is it not? change the battery...

Rule #2 - Have a back up guitar...   ;)

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: acmeseed on February 11, 2012, 11:31:18 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Good tip about the led, I had seen it in the documentation, but I was not paying attention to it.

In my situation I am able to closely estimate usage. Thursday practice from about 8-9, call it 1.5 hours, Saturday plug in at 4 for practice and the service ends at 6, 2 hours, Sunday morning plug in at 9 service ends at 10;30 1.5 hours. Home I practice Saturday mornings but rarely plugged in, same thing during the week. I am figuring if the battery goes in a month that's about 20 hours, but for benefit of the doubt maybe it's closer to 30 hours.

I'll monitor it it with the new one and see what I get.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: jjrpilot-admin on February 11, 2012, 06:14:26 PM

Good topic!  I actually just replaced mine about 2 weeks ago.  I was still using the original one that came with the guitar in July.  Granted we only have band practice for about 2 hours a weeks.  We then have one big session at the end of each month that last for about another 2 hours.

The LED indicator is your best bet...mine was dimmer than usual so I just replaced it.  +10,000 on using Duracell.  Fits perfectly!  ;D

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Edward on February 13, 2012, 12:53:48 AM

Just a caution on the LED indicator: alkalines do not degrade in a linear fashion.  The LED simply tells you you're good to go right now ...1 hr from now all bets are off.  If you're on stage, I would NEVER rely on an LED.  Pulling the battery compartment and checking voltage (or simply replacing it) is just too easy, and the surest thing you can do.  After all, it's only you up there on stage   ...not like everyone is watching, right?

Edward

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Herb Hunter on February 13, 2012, 07:11:41 AM

As I see it, the LED is a warning to replace the battery before going on stage or, if one is using the guitar off-stage, to  be ready to change the battery at any moment.


Alkaline batteries have a long shelf life so it doesn't make sense to ever be without a spare battery.


It would be interesting to conduct a study to see ho accurate estimates of battery life are. While some people with a regimented guitar playing schedule may be able to calculate battery life precisely enough, I wonder what the average disparity is between the assumed battery life and the actual battery life.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Magster24 on February 13, 2012, 09:52:28 AM

There's also the thought about using rechargable batteries.  I've been using a Lithium Ion Rechargable 9V for about 2 years with good results.  Mine is rated at 500 mAh and it's never run dead on me yet.  I just make sure to charge it once every 2-3 months and it seems to last me the ~ 40 hours as advertised by Taylor.  I've tried some that are rated lower (like 280-300 mAh) and those die a little quicker...but they're still rechargable.

As a spare for emergencies, I do keep a normal Alkaline battery in the case.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Scriptor on February 13, 2012, 03:30:00 PM

Quote

check batt with a VOM before going live

+1 ... I got a really inexpensive battery tester from Radio Shack; works great ...

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Herb Hunter on February 13, 2012, 05:24:57 PM

Quote from: Edward on February 11, 2012, 12:16:03 AM

...check batt with a VOM before going live. ...

In order to accurately measure voltage the reading must be made while the battery is driving a load equal to that of the circuitry it is intended to power. Without a load (that is measuring the voltage across the battery's terminals), the voltage indicated would be higher than the voltage the battery could muster while driving the load imposed by the preamp.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Herb Hunter on February 13, 2012, 06:19:59 PM

Things to keep in mind: The rechargeable battery discharge rate when not in use. Alkaline batteries loose energy at a very slow rate (years) when not in use but rechargeable batteries don't hold a charge for long so it is important to recharge the battery before a performance if the battery hasn't been used for a while even if it was fully charged up after the last time it was used.

While a rechargeable NiMH battery puts out a lower voltage, it maintains a steadier voltage than an alkaline battery as it runs down. The difference in the average voltage of a rechargeable battery is closer to that of an alkaline than their maximum voltage rating suggests.


Non-Rechargeable Lithium: 9.6 Volts, 1200 mAh (milliamps per hour)
Non-Rechargeable Alkaline: 9.0 Volt 560 mAh


Rechargeable Lithium-ion: 8.4 Volts 520 mAh
Rechargeable NiMH: 7.2 to 8.4 Volts 175-300 mAh


As you can see from the mAh rating, a non-rechargeable alkaline battery lasts considerably longer than a rechargeable NiMH battery in most cases.


Lithium-ion batteries (or lithium-ion polymer ones) are best but at around $20 (the last time I checked which was quite a while ago), they are expensive. They retain their charge longer, have a higher initial voltage and don't wear out as quickly as other types.


Batteries are being improved all the time so it is possible that some newly released battery will have better specifications than those I provided.


Voltage and amperage ratings are nominal.

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: Edward on February 13, 2012, 06:36:09 PM

Hey, Herb is in the house!  :)

Well Herb beat me to it:  I've never used rechargible LithIon batts in 9V form ...only in cameras where it's their proprietary battery; so at $20 for a 9v, I'd pass myself.  As for disposable LithIons, these have serious longevity from a non-calculated seat-of-the-pants observation.  But they cost considerably more than alkalines so I never bothered again.  And rechargible NiMH suck, IMHO: they discharge when not in use, and just don't last.  Herb's chart (cool chart, btw) on amperage at least partly explains it ...NiMH can't deliver the amperage that a regular alkaline can, so likely simply don't have the capacity as alkalines.

As for measuring voltage on alkalines, it's accurate enough to offer a snapshot of battery life.  It's true that measuring a battery under a load is the truly accurate way to determine health ...which is why autoparts shops put your car battery on their bench tester instead of simply running a VOM on the terminals; the latter tells you little when static, then you hit the key and the starter draws serious amperage from the battery, while the former simulates load to give you a better idea of whether it's good or not.  But for alkaline batts, a VOM across the terminals is plenty good to determine whether you're ok to go, or should simply replace.  Like I had said, checking with a VOM or simply replacing with a fresh alkaline is just too easy to do, and far better than trying to ride a battery out to the edge when playing in front of an audience ...unless you actually like that kind of thrill-seeking, of course ;)

Edward

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: michaelw on February 13, 2012, 07:11:54 PM

hi mike,
i was just wondering what type of battery you're using &
how 'new' they are (if they have a 'born-on-date') ???

Quote from: Herb Hunter on February 13, 2012, 05:24:57 PM

Quote from: Edward on February 11, 2012, 12:16:03 AM

...check batt with a VOM before going live. ...

In order to accurately measure voltage the reading must be made while the battery is driving a load equal to that of the circuitry it is intended to power. Without a load (that is measuring the voltage across the battery's terminals), the voltage indicated would be higher than the voltage the battery could muster while driving the load imposed by the preamp.

one would need a 'load tester' to measure capacity
http://www.ztsinc.com/minimbt.html (http://www.ztsinc.com/minimbt.html)
i am uncertain what level mAh load is used on this tester
http://www.ztsinc.com/MINIMBT_MINI9R_OI.pdf (http://www.ztsinc.com/MINIMBT_MINI9R_OI.pdf)

larger carbon pile load testers are meant for batteries of the
auto/marine type (6V/12V +/- 1000CCA range) & are capable
of putting a 500amp load on the battery that is being tested
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/AOE-6034.html (http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/AOE-6034.html)
one flick of the knob & a new 9V is basically done (1A = 1000 mA)

the mAh rating of the battery being used
http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm (http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm)
i've heard that duracell pro-cells are of the same mAh rating
as the coppertop, but may read 9.5+V new, compared to 9.4-5V
http://www.medicbatteries.com/bulk-batteries-duracell-coppertop-9-volt-battery (http://www.medicbatteries.com/bulk-batteries-duracell-coppertop-9-volt-battery)

& the ES mAh draw information (Taylor customer service ??? )

also, if one is going to use a rechargeable Li-Ion battery, the battery case
should be measured to verify it will be accepted by the ES 9V power supply -
energizer & ray-o-vac alkalines are slightly larger than duracell, or in actuality
duracells are slightly smaller than most other disposable alkaline batteries

imho, i am reading into all of this a bit much, but i believe the short answer would be -
duracell procell (with terminal clips) or coppertop, buy 'em in bulk (4 yr shelf life),
change 'em once a week (if you play ~ 40 hrs a week) & keep a spare in the pick box :)

or, one could be like kramer ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuEdU_lrtZk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuEdU_lrtZk)
ymmv

Title: Re: What kind of battery life are you getting out of your modern ES system?
Post by: acmeseed on February 13, 2012, 07:31:03 PM

Hi Michael,

I am using Duracell, for what I understand that is what Taylor recommends. I'll look at their date when I get home, I bought them about 2 months ago, but that does not mean they have not been sitting around for a while.