Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: ataylor on February 10, 2012, 01:02:15 AM
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Personally I think they should get together with Sam Beam (Iron and Wine) and let him pick out some specs for a signature model. I've seen him play a variety of Taylors and little else and I think he dispels the notion that you can't get a good folksy, vintage tone out of a Taylor.
Who would your vote be for?
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If they want to sell big they do a Taylor Swift signature series Koa. They would sell a bunch. I would love a Zac Brown signature (like the one Bob built custom for him).
-Dave
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I recall, some time ago, talk about a possible Tommy Shaw model.
I don't know that a Taylor Swift model would be as big a seller as people think. Buying a TSBT is a no-brainer; couple of hundred bucks. But when you start talking about high-grade Koa, it would be a different story. As a guy in his late 40's, if I had a choice between a Taylor Swift Signature Model GS (for instance) or a K26ce with upgraded woods, I'm going for the upgraded woods and leaving the "Taylor Swift" off of it...
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Marketing-wise, I don't think it's a particularly good idea to take the name from a very low-end product and put it on a high-end one.
But I have to say that I'm not a big fan of Taylor's sig models, since I don't really want some artist's personal message or symbols on my guitar. Unless I'm wrong, in most cases Taylor makes a signature guitar by taking an existing model and allowing an artist to gussy it up, so the guitar is really only different cosmetically. The Leo Kottke models seem to be the exceptions. I'd love to see artists design the guitar from the ground up -- different woods, scale lengths, appointments -- and leave off the personal messages. The guitars would be designed more along the lines of limited edition models than taking existing guitars and applying superficial changes to them.
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I'd love to see artists design the guitar from the ground up -- different woods, scale lengths, appointments -- and leave off the personal messages.
Doyle did something much like that. His guitar had the depth of a GC, but a width of a GA, as well as (after time) a short-scale neck...
The guitars would be designed more along the lines of limited edition models than the way the program works now.
How does the program work now?
From what I can tell, Signature Models are certainly destined to be more limited, as they're not even shown in the catalog this year...
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Well I'm available....
LOL ...now there's a scary thought ;D ;D ;D
Edward
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The thing that always irked me about signature models is that, more often than not, the artists for who their named don't play them, nor did they make their name playing them.
Dave Matthews didn't spend is time on stage all those years with a guitar inlaid with "GRUX" on the fretboard. I understand why it was done, but the guitar simply doesn't share the same specs as the ones Dave played on stage while making a name for himself. That said, Taylor sold a bunch of them, but I think those guitars probably went to people who were fans of Dave Matthews as opposed to people who wanted a guitar with the same specs as Dave's.
I was backstage once with Eric Johnson. His Strat was laying there in an open case, and I asked him why he wasn't playing an "Eric Johnson Signature Model". His response was "Because this one is my guitar".
That said it all...
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I would love a Zac Brown signature (like the one Bob built custom for him).
Good call, that would probably be a popular model.
I don't know that a Taylor Swift model would be as big a seller as people think. Buying a TSBT is a no-brainer; couple of hundred bucks. But when you start talking about high-grade Koa, it would be a different story. As a guy in his late 40's, if I had a choice between a Taylor Swift Signature Model GS (for instance) or a K26ce with upgraded woods, I'm going for the upgraded woods and leaving the "Taylor Swift" off of it...
I think Taylor missed an opportunity by not doing a copy of her glittery model in a 100/200 series type range. That's what she was iconic for at the time and I bet that would have been more likely to get younger girls into the Taylor fold than a baby. At this point I think a GS Mini would be a perfect Taylor Swift signature since it's more like what she plays on stage.
Marketing-wise, I don't think it's a particularly good idea to take the name from a very low-end product and put it on a high-end one.
Not sure what you're getting at here.
I'd love to see artists design the guitar from the ground up -- different woods, scale lengths, appointments -- and leave off the personal messages. The guitars would be designed more along the lines of limited edition models than taking existing guitars and applying superficial changes to them.
That's kind of what I was inferring -- letting an artist essentially do a BTO and doing a limited run signature model.
The thing that always irked me about signature models is that, more often than not, the artists for who their named don't play them, nor did they make their name playing them.
I agree with this to a point -- I think there needs to be some kind of connection. For example, I'd be more likely to buy a James Taylor signature Gibson J-50 than one of his Olsen guitars. Because even though he's been playing the Olsens for a while now, to me, JT's signature sound is a J-50. But for fans of his later work, the opposite would be true as well. I think my Iron and Wine example is valid because he's been playing Taylors for a while now and that's what I associate him with when I think of the guitars he plays.
Dave Matthews didn't spend is time on stage all those years with a guitar inlaid with "GRUX" on the fretboard. I understand why it was done, but the guitar simply doesn't share the same specs as the ones Dave played on stage while making a name for himself. That said, Taylor sold a bunch of them, but I think those guitars probably went to people who were fans of Dave Matthews as opposed to people who wanted a guitar with the same specs as Dave's.
I think this is definitely true, there is a fan aspect that goes along with the guitar, which is kind of the point of a signature model, I guess. :)
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I think Taylor missed an opportunity by not doing a copy of her glittery model in a 100/200 series type range. That's what she was iconic for at the time and I bet that would have been more likely to get younger girls into the Taylor fold than a baby.
Well, the Taylor Swift Baby has sold ridiculously well.
As for the glittery model, Taylor would've sold, to borrow a ceratin VP's phrase, "tens of them".
The 214 sells for about $XXX.00. A 114 sells for $XXX.00. Now, gussy it up with fake Swarovski bedazzles, and the prices go up. Taylor Swift's guitar is a GS8, so you'd have to go with a 214 to get the Rosewood. How many Moms and Dads are going to drop that kinda' money, on a guitar like that, so their little girl can get into the "Taylor fold"?
Spare few, I would think...
edited for price
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Well, the Taylor Swift Baby has sold ridiculously well.
As for the glittery model, Taylor would've sold, to borrow a ceratin VP's phrase, "tens of them".
The 214 sells for about $XXX.00. A 114 sells for $XXX.00. Now, gussy it up with fake Swarovski bedazzles, and the prices go up. Taylor Swift's guitar is a GS8, so you'd have to go with a 214 to get the Rosewood. How many Moms and Dads are going to drop that kinda' money, on a guitar like that, so their little girl can get into the "Taylor fold"?
Spare few, I would think...
Good points.
quote edited for price
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I always thought it'd be cool if James Taylor played a Taylor.
Maybe Jewel? Doesn't she play Taylor exclusively? And Katy Perry too.
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I always thought it'd be cool if James Taylor played a Taylor.
Maybe Jewel? Doesn't she play Taylor exclusively? And Katy Perry too.
Back in the day when Taylor had an extensive "Artists Who Play Taylor" list -- none of them really endorsers, but performing and recording artists who had purchased a Taylor at some point -- I'm pretty sure James Taylor was on it. He's seen almost exclusively with his Olsens these days, but I'm almost positive he's owned or still owns a Taylor.
I want to say Jewel already had a signature model at one point. I could be wrong though.
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I want to say Jewel already had a signature model at one point. I could be wrong though.
You're correct...
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I recall, some time ago, talk about a possible Tommy Shaw model.
I don't know that a Taylor Swift model would be as big a seller as people think. Buying a TSBT is a no-brainer; couple of hundred bucks. But when you start talking about high-grade Koa, it would be a different story. As a guy in his late 40's, if I had a choice between a Taylor Swift Signature Model GS (for instance) or a K26ce with upgraded woods, I'm going for the upgraded woods and leaving the "Taylor Swift" off of it...
I disagree on both counts.
Not a whole lot of people know who Tommy Shaw is anymore (yes I do and I do like his music alot). I don't think that would do much of anything.
TS signature Koa would be a good seller. It would sell every bit as much as a Dave Matthews or at least would have a year or so ago. Taylor missed a huge opportunity on that one although I would guess they made as much money selling the baby Ts. Many of the little girls that follow her now play guitars (mainly because of her) and many of those little girls have parents that have a good amount of $$$$. Pretty easy equation in my book.
-Dave
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Many of the little girls that follow her now play guitars (mainly because of her) and many of those little girls have parents that have a good amount of $$$$. Pretty easy equation in my book.
-Dave
Really?
Most of the people I know who have "$$$$" have it because they don't do silly things like buying their little girls $5,000.00 guitars.
And, make no mistake, that's in the ballpark of what an all Koa Taylor Swift GS or Jumbo would cost...
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O.A.R. singer Marc Roberge
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Many of the little girls that follow her now play guitars (mainly because of her) and many of those little girls have parents that have a good amount of $$$$. Pretty easy equation in my book.
-Dave
Really?
Most of the people I know who have "$$$$" have it because they don't do silly things like buying their little girls $5,000.00 guitars.
And, make no mistake, that's in the ballpark of what an all Koa Taylor Swift GS or Jumbo would cost...
Perhaps not, but I do know more than a few guys with $$$$ who have no problem buying $5,000 little girls... :o
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How about a Mick Jagger 4-series guitar for us baby boomers on fixed incomes???
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I always thought it'd be cool if James Taylor played a Taylor.
Maybe Jewel? Doesn't she play Taylor exclusively? And Katy Perry too.
Back in the day when Taylor had an extensive "Artists Who Play Taylor" list -- none of them really endorsers, but performing and recording artists who had purchased a Taylor at some point -- I'm pretty sure James Taylor was on it. He's seen almost exclusively with his Olsens these days, but I'm almost positive he's owned or still owns a Taylor.
I want to say Jewel already had a signature model at one point. I could be wrong though.
you're right :)
James Taylor was on it - baby Taylor is listed
http://taylorguitars.us/artists/awp/recording.html (http://taylorguitars.us/artists/awp/recording.html)
Jewel did have a signature model
http://taylorguitars.us/Guitars/Archive/Older/jksm.html (http://taylorguitars.us/Guitars/Archive/Older/jksm.html)
it was close to the 314 $ point, had satinwood back & sides, yellowheart rosette/inlays,
faux 'tortoise' binding & fishman matrix UST ... imho, the highest value per $ SM :)
i've seen a pic of a couple of JKSMs that had venetian cutaways & one had an ab rosette also
the current 700 series is very much in the aesthetic vein of the guitar made for Sonia Leigh
see page 7
http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/ws_fall_2011.pdf (http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/ws_fall_2011.pdf)
i wonder if a gloss solid tasmanian blackwood top 214ce with tas blackwood laminate
back & sides would sell well, as a 'TDX' LTD model, but it'd likely be 4x + the $ of the TSBT :-\
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I guess the beauty of the BTO program is that we can all have our own signature model, right? I'm still trying to figure out if I can afford mine. ;)
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these might be pretty cool, i think :)
signature models
Leo Kottke LKSM/6 redesigned, revoiced 555/515c
Wayne Johnson T3 & T5 custom-voiced pick ups
artist models
Zac Brown 714ce-N 27" scale, 13 fret, ES-N with body sensor/UST
Sonia Leigh 514ce sitka, adi CV, vintage cherryburst
Christina Perri 614ce engelmann, adi CV
John Rzeznik 815ce or 816ce, adi CV
Tommy Shaw 810e adi CV, macassar ebony
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"Who should Taylor do a signature model for next?"
Me.
:)
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I think that they should do a signature model for me. I will naturally have input to the design and use it proudly and publicly at every opportunity, showing off the brand. Oh, I forgot... that's the BTO program :-)
Jim
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Many of the little girls that follow her now play guitars (mainly because of her) and many of those little girls have parents that have a good amount of $$$$. Pretty easy equation in my book.
-Dave
Really?
Most of the people I know who have "$$$$" have it because they don't do silly things like buying their little girls $5,000.00 guitars.
And, make no mistake, that's in the ballpark of what an all Koa Taylor Swift GS or Jumbo would cost...
There is a reason that the Taylor Swift model is a baby/big baby (whatever). It's not a real guitar and she probably could not hold a jumbo.
How about going with pure celeb status and having a (Sarcasm Alert) Kim Kardashian or Lagy Gaga model?
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Many of the little girls that follow her now play guitars (mainly because of her) and many of those little girls have parents that have a good amount of $$$$. Pretty easy equation in my book.
-Dave
Really?
Most of the people I know who have "$$$$" have it because they don't do silly things like buying their little girls $5,000.00 guitars.
And, make no mistake, that's in the ballpark of what an all Koa Taylor Swift GS or Jumbo would cost...
There is a reason that the Taylor Swift model is a baby/big baby (whatever). It's not a real guitar and she probably could not hold a jumbo.
How about going with pure celeb status and having a (Sarcasm Alert) Kim Kardashian or Lagy Gaga model?
i'm going to have to respectfully disagree on this one, as personally i feel the BT & BBT models are 'real' guitars
albeit 3/4 & 15/16 size ones, they have solid tops, sapele necks, ebony fretboards & bridges, diecast tuners,
Graph Tech nut & saddle & Elixir NanoWebs - i have 3 of the earlier BTs, my sister has a BT-2 & my dad has a BBT
Taylor installed a fishman prefix pro in that BBT & i played it at my aunt's memorial service & it sounded fine (to me) -
the only reason i didn't 'pull the trigger' on the last BBT i played is because i'd just picked up a GS Mini
there is a member here that picked up a TSBT for her grand daughter & they're learning to play together, which is great :D
to me, if a guitar can be used to make music & it's enjoyable for one to play it, then it's a 'real' guitar
i don't know ... perhaps Taylor Swift can hold a jumbo ;)
http://www.waleg.com/celebrities/images/taylor-swift-guitar.jpg (http://www.waleg.com/celebrities/images/taylor-swift-guitar.jpg)
http://www.disneydreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Taylor-Swift-Guitar-Auction.jpg (http://www.disneydreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Taylor-Swift-Guitar-Auction.jpg)
ymmv
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I am not really a fan of the signature models, which I think is surprising because I was so excited about the Dave Matthews SM. Then when I saw the DMSM, heard Dave talking about it and how much the little things meant to him and what they represented, I no longer wanted one. It was too personal to Dave Matthews. In a fan sense, I would be more interested in a late 90's 914c.
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Wayne Johnson T3 & T5 custom-voiced pick ups
I've never seen anyone do what Wayne does with a T5...
John Rzeznik 815ce or 816ce, adi CV
John's partial to 900's...
Tommy Shaw 810e adi CV, macassar ebony[/font][/size][/color]
Tommy pretty much plays Maple Taylors, either 655ce or 656ce.
Rosewood or Macassar? That is SO not Tommy...
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Tommy Shaw 810e adi CV, macassar ebony[/font][/size][/color]
Tommy pretty much plays Maple Taylors, either 655ce or 656ce.
Rosewood or Macassar? That is SO not Tommy...
Actually, check out the Spring 2011 Wood and Steel, page 12. Taylor built Tommy a pair of short scale Dreads with Adi tops, CV bracing, and Madagascar RW.
He had them made for his bluegrass project "The Great Divide".
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since the DMSM is based on a 914ce & it's been mentioned that John Rzeznick plays
800/900s (shown with a 815ce here & listed as playing an 814ce), although the pics
are of a 2010/earlier 9XXce ... i wonder which guitars Michelle was playing that day :-\
http://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/artists/goo-goos-hit-san-diego (http://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/artists/goo-goos-hit-san-diego)
macassar could be slight more 'economical' than madagascar &
an adi CV braced sitka top would be a nice 'touch', i think ...
it's just a 'what-if' 'wish-list' here ???
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I am not really a fan of the signature models, which I think is surprising because I was so excited about the Dave Matthews SM. Then when I saw the DMSM, heard Dave talking about it and how much the little things meant to him and what they represented, I no longer wanted one. It was too personal to Dave Matthews. In a fan sense, I would be more interested in a late 90's 914c.
I'm of the same opinion. My answer to this thread is "nobody". I think companies that build expensive, complex things need to be careful about a proliferation of models/versions. It can complicate sales and production and eat into profits, and confuse customers. With the roll out of the 2012 standard line up, it sort of looked like Taylor was trying to rationalize their offerings somewhat. While the changes to the 700 series disappointed me (and I don't mean to hijack this thread), it's ok because I went with an 800 series.
I'm sure artist endorsements do sell some guitars, but is it because someone wants to look or sound like that artist? I don't know for sure, but that's not possible. Instruments are so deeply personal, to most of us, that it is all about how one feels and sounds in YOUR hands, and you and I will no doubt pick out different guitars if we were put in a roomful of them and allowed to walk out with one each.
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the current 914ce can be ordered with an engelmann top & without electronics -
97-00 914c vs 11-12 914ce, the main differences between the 2 models would be
NT neck with scarfjoint headstock vs pre NT on 97-early 00 models
CV bracing vs pre-Standard II (non-forward shifted & no relief rout)
gloss ebony headstock overlay with rosewood binding vs unbound gloss rosewood headstock
bridge pins holes in a straight line vs smiley bridge (pinholes in an arc) on 97- early 99 models
Cindy bridge inlay vs no bridge inlay
bone nut & saddle vs Tusq
Gotoh tuners vs Grovers
in addition to age, the woods on the earlier models are likely to have
tighter & straighter grain, with more silking on the engelmann top &
greater variegation on the rosewood (black, dark brown & purple)
whether the newer model or older model sounds better is up to the person playing
i find that i have more interest in a signature model if it has some features
(unique to a 'standard' model) that have an effect on tone (woods or bracing),
rather than just aesthetics (inlay, finish, etc) & that if i like the tone of a
guitar that an artist is playing & their music, not that i would 'sound like them',
i would be more inclined to research the specs of the 'original' guitar,
whether it be a 68 hummingbird or 68 tele with a maple 'board, etc
imho, it's not just what they're playing, although it is a big part of it,
but it's how they're playing it (in addition to the rig & settings)
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Actually, check out the Spring 2011 Wood and Steel, page 12. Taylor built Tommy a pair of short scale Dreads with Adi tops, CV bracing, and Madagascar RW.
He had them made for his bluegrass project "The Great Divide".
Absolutely true.
Go to a Styx concert, where far more people will see him during a tour, and see what he's playing.
Tommy's not identified with the Dreads...
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Tommy's been seen with some Taylor electrics as well,
especially when they were yet to be released (prototypes) -
perhaps, a SolidBody single or double cutaway Standard model
with custom voiced pickups/configuration, unique finish & inlays ???
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Tommy's been seen with some Taylor electrics as well,
especially when they were yet to be released (prototypes) -
perhaps, a SolidBody single or double cutaway Standard model
with custom voiced pickups/configuration, unique finish & inlays ???
When Tommy plays electric, it might be a PRS, a Gibson or a Fender.
When he plays an acoustic, though, it's always a Taylor. Ergo, an acoustic would be far more appropriate...
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It seems that signature models can go either way in terms of "association" -- sometimes they are a replica of a guitar that the artist is known to use (like my Lennon Epiphone Casino, or a Clapton "Blackie" Stratocaster), while other times it's simply a guitar that is some sort of collaboration between the company and the artist (like that new John Mayer "stagecoach" Martin, or the Jeff Tweedy Gibson SG).
Both routes are capable of yielding cool guitars. Since Taylor is a comparatively young guitar company, it seems that they would typically go with the latter route more often than not, which suits their brand approach just fine.
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Tommy may play a 655 or 656ce most frequently, but i wonder how
strong the 'mass-appeal' would be for a larger body maple 12'er ???
a 616ce could possibly be a 'safer bet', imho - adi CV, custom finish & inlays
but there is a dealer that has already done a sizable special order run with
sitka/maple & adi CV ... perhaps an engelmann top, to change it up a little :-\
a JKSM (a la JDX), based on the 214e with a cedar top, satinwood laminate, custom inlays &
rosette & the ES-T for a relatively small upcharge could be interesting, i think :)