Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: Truc on August 14, 2021, 09:09:35 AM
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Anyone had this issue with their Taylor?
I started noticing some specks after a few months of buying this guitar, and this is how it looks like after 3.5 years.
Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed at the quality of the laminate. This is really very poor workmanship.
Any idea what to do with it?
xx Distressed Damsel xx
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Did you purchase it new? That should be covered by Taylor
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I agree with Corey, that should be covered and I would be shocked if Taylor didn
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I wrote to Taylor and all they did was blame humidity n the environment while harping about my expired warranty. Although the peeling started a few months after I bought it (new) I only made a fuss recently (after 3 years) as the specks startedsmall n got bigger over time.
I'm extremely disappointed with them. Don't tell me I have to keep my guitar in a glass box to keep it from the elements?
I would definitely not go anywhere near a Taylor guitar anymore. They are overpriced products of very poor quality. I guess its all hype.
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Good for you that your experience with them has been pleasant.
But a guitar with peeling paintwork after a few months? I'd say that's even worse than a fake Chinese guitar which sells for 10 times less. And instead of taking this opportunity to check on their QC process n improve, they chose to smugly blame me n trivialise my distress.
I really don't know what to with this ugly headstock. Paint over them? Anyone knows the colour code or suitable paint?
Meantime, I'm looking at a new Taka or Martin.
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To my eye, that does not look like it is delaminating, but rather like the clearcoat is "pulling up" which is leaving you with the bubbled areas.
When you say you "wrote" to Taylor, do you mean to say you emailed them with pics? Taylor has the best customer support I have ever experienced, and this over decades, and this repeated throughout the entire industry, no hyperbole. There are countless others who, like myself, have had Taylor go above and beyond to rectify an issue. Perhaps try phoning them and asking if you can text them a few pics so they can see for themselves?
Of course, you can simply live with it. I am, however, curious what part of the world do you live in as that does look like a high-humidity-related issue to my eye.
Edward
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Thanks Edward,
You seem to know a great deal about the headstock construction, could you advise me on how to repair it?
Yes of course I sent them photos. And I live in the poorer part of SEAsia so maybe they just treat people from this part of the world differently (nothing new for me). I also complained to the shop I bought from but again they pointed out the expired warranty and no longer respond.
I have always treated the guitar immaculately, n I hang it on my bedroom wall when not playing. How is that a humidity issue? I don't live next to the sea or on a misty mountain top.
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Truc,
This "poorer part of SEAsia" and the implication you make not only is inflammatory, it is not going to get you any traction. You've already made one poor assumption about a company that --apart from anyone's personal opinions-- has demonstrated over decades, in no uncertain terms, that they serve their customer base superbly well, and moreover is lauded by industry leaders across the globe. And this since their inception decades ago. And now you suggest that your neck of the woods is ignored or maligned simply because of geography, or perhaps a more insidious motive. These are assumptions that go beyond the pale and assumptions that cannot go unchallenged. That said, this is a GUITAR forum and not the place for these challenges. So I am taking this time now to let you know how I perceive your comments with the hope that you will rethink your approach, as well as your stance.
You've had several well-meaning pieces of advice and constructive comments here already, and it is my observation that you are glossing over them because you are embroiled in your frustration. While the latter is understandable, the former presupposes that everyone functions as a community with respect, an open mind, and not least of which kindness. I hope you accept my words and their intent well.
And do read up on "relative humidity" and its effects on acoustic instruments. RH is a significant factor in the health and maintenance of every instrument composed of wood, irrespective of brand. One's geography has very much to do with how one needs to care for a guitar. Read and you will see this has always been the case.
Edward
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Since you mentioned an expired one-year warranty, it was obvious that you were overseas. Too late now, but you should have brought this to your dealer as soon as it started happening. In that case you would have a paper trail that it was a manufacturing issue that came up very early. At least this is not a structural problem.
I cannot think of any area in SE Asia that would not qualify as "extremely humid" but you can correct me if I'm wrong. Leaving it hung on your wall means that you exposed it to whatever your house is indoors. Without AC that could be 80% RH. Proper humidity control would be keeping it in a hard case with large silica gel dehumidifier packs, recharging those by baking lightly in an oven periodically when they get saturated. Unless you have a hygrometer to measure the indoor RH you simply do not know what your storage conditions are. Outdoor RH really doesn't matter unless your windows are open all the time. The correct range is 40-60% for most guitars, with trends toward 40% usually sounding better. Above 60% RH and you risk a swollen top, bracing coming loose, high action, and other issues - like finish detachment when excess moisture between the finish and the wood.
Edward correctly pointed out that the UV cured clear coat is de-laminating from the plastic peg head overlay material. This happens sometimes. The two easiest options to remedy this are:
- remove the tuning machines and carefully sand the finish off entirely (losing the Taylor logo in the process)
- laminate your own wood overlay on top of what is there now, scuffing it up first so the adhesive bonds well
A new home made overlay is a bit of a woodworking project. Or you could just sand down to the black plastic overlay material and be done.
With all due respect, until you address the underlying humidity issue, a Takamine or especially a Martin will likely fare much worse. This is likely not a brand-related issue, but an environmental one. Any guitar that is not all laminated wood will probably suffer a similar fate in wet conditions.
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To repair yourself: I recently just did the same thing to a headstock that broke off on a Banjo. I saved the Logo.
First remove tuners and nut, tape off everything that is not getting worked on.
Start with 320 grit wet paper and some kind of hard foam pad so you spread the load evenly over the whole surface (look up how to wet-sand on the internet).
Work around the logo so you don't sand it off, but sand everything around it to make it flat.
Use 400-600 grit very lightly over the logo area, you are only trying to scuff up the clear coat. Very light pressure, just a few strokes.
I would then mask off the logo only and paint the surface with black (automotive paint works well).
Just enough black to make it one color. No more than required. You don't want a big step where the logo is so keep the black coat very thin.
Let cure.
Then remove the masking tape over the logo.
Again, lightly sand with 600grit over the whole thing after it has dried. Just to knock off the high spots. Touch up any black spots that didn't cover. This should only take a few seconds to lightly scuff the surface. doesn't have to be perfect. Just knock off the high stuff.
Clean surface. ( I like window cleaner as it dries clean)
Then lay on 4+ coats of clear. As you lay the coats on, the difference from the logo and the area around should blend away.
Once cured out, remove all masking tape and polish (car polish/scratch remover works well).
You can do this yourself with excellent results....
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Sanding glue joint, staying clear of Logo.
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Logo masked off for painting black.
Clear coats make the tape lines dis-appear.
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Thanks Tom,
Your suggestions look great! I'm kinda nervous though about all this woodworking stuff so not sure if i should do this myself. Also, your paintwork looks really shiny while the one on my Taylor is a kind of a satin finish? They call it Lexan laminate or something.? Somebody already quoted me a 100 dollars for this kind of work, which is a fifth of what the guitar cost, quite a sum. I really regret buying this guitar.
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Hi Earl,
Thanks for your suggestions and insights. Yeah I sure have heard about swollen bellies, bracing coming loose, high action, etc due to high humidity, but not this sort of discolouration/ laminate peeling (unless in some really old guitars). For it to happen just after a few months, to me this reflects very poor workmanship and choice of materials. If really their guitar is so feeble and not able to stand a little humidity then perhaps they shouldn't be selling them in these parts at such prices. Instead of taking this opportunity to look into their quality monitoring and improve their materials, they blame the environment and dismissed my queries. Nevertheless, appreciate your help.
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Hello Truc
Welcome to the forum and sorry about some of the less than helpful replies. You have every right to be annoyed at what is clearly a factory finish flaw not covered by your expired warranty. I can well imagine how those white blotches take the pride of ownership out of playing your guitar. A big "tsk-tsk" to Taylor for letting that one get out of the building. That said, the flaw is cosmetic only and you still have an excellent playing and sounding guitar.
Apologies if I get philosophical, but a saying in the US is "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade"
My lemonade is to suggest you have a custom sticker made that will cover all of the headstock. This will cost far less than the repair quote you received. A quick google search on "guitar headstock decals" came up with quite a few companies that offer them. Seems like it would be a simple matter to chose a flat black color and it'd be a fun idea to replace the Taylor Logo with your own name instead.
Here's a few links to get you started, there's likely many others -
https://www.guitarheadstockdecals.com
https://www.rothkoandfrost.com/guitar-decals-i40
https://www.axetremecreations.com/product-category/guitar-stickers-decals/
Another option is to buy a black guitar pickguard blank and have that cut to fit your headstock. They have an adhesive back so it'd be more permanent than a sticker, and also more durable. A tortoiseshell one might look pretty cool!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32992245638.html?src=bing&albslr=230877763&isdl=y
https://www.musiclily.com/musiclily-20x25cm-self-adhesion-acoustic-guitar-pickguard-blank-dark-tortoise-shell-mx0948.html
Best of luck with your guitar!
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Hi Earl,
Thanks for your suggestions and insights. Yeah I sure have heard about swollen bellies, bracing coming loose, high action, etc due to high humidity, but not this sort of discolouration/ laminate peeling (unless in some really old guitars). For it to happen just after a few months, to me this reflects very poor workmanship and choice of materials. If really their guitar is so feeble and not able to stand a little humidity then perhaps they shouldn't be selling them in these parts at such prices. Instead of taking this opportunity to look into their quality monitoring and improve their materials, they blame the environment and dismissed my queries. Nevertheless, appreciate your help.
To me the big issue here seems to be your bashing Taylor after watching this degrade over the past 3 plus years no matter what the original cause was. It seems obvious that if this started happening one would immediately take it in for inspection/repair. Waiting another 3 years and then blaming Taylor is a bit disingenuous IMHO.
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Looks like a painted coating, rather than a laminate. In any case, shouldn't it be covered by your warranty?
Good luck on this one, sorry to see it $$'s are hard to come by!
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.....I sure have heard about swollen bellies, bracing coming loose, high action, etc due to high humidity, but not this sort of discolouration/ laminate peeling (unless in some really old guitars)...... If really their guitar is so feeble and not able to stand a little humidity then perhaps they shouldn't be selling them in these parts at such prices.
Moisture is a PITA (pain in the .... behind) and can migrate under the finish causing this kind of finish separation on ANY brand of instrument. In this case, the peg head is a black Lexan plastic overlay glued on top of the wooden peg head, then sprayed over with the normal UV cured poly finish that Taylor uses. This problem is quite rare, and I'm sorry that you are suffering. You might be happier with some other brand going forward. But don't be surprised if your extreme environment causes similar issues with another brand of guitar. Only carbon fiber guitars are immune to very high or very low humidity, but all CF instruments are quite expensive.
As to your second point, Taylor is really clear and forthright with information about proper humidity care for their guitars -- the best in the industry, candidly. Check this out: https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/maintenance/symptoms-wet-guitar If you chose to ignore that advice and now have issues, how is that their fault? If your car engine blows up because you let it run low on oil, your auto warranty will not cover the repair.
Vent your frustration if you must, but having now received multiple constructive suggestions and yet continuing on with your pejorative commentary, it is not clear what else we can do for you here as an on-line community. This is meant gently and in the nicest possible way, but if you are not listening then I'm done trying to help. :(
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Looks like a painted coating, rather than a laminate. In any case, shouldn't it be covered by your warranty?
Good luck on this one, sorry to see it $$'s are hard to come by!
Hi BJBear. Looks like you're new here so welcome to it.
It's always good to read through what others have posted before you do. Here, if you read through the earlier part of this thread you'll see the OP was told this was not a warranteed issue.
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Thank you JPmist!
You have some fine suggestions there, and i might consider a little bit of those D-I-Y myself.
I still don't get it why some people are still harping on 'humidity'. I thought the head was a plastic thing, some Lexan overlay whatever? And i thought the whole idea of using laminates is to prevent issues related to humidity? To me the issue here is poor material use as coating, or poor spraying/ laminating/ coating techniques. Clearly the manufacturer's fault, won't touch another of their instrument ever again.
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Hi Truc, if you are in Vietnam, there are a lot of very good luthiers there that could fix this problem (I don't know any personally. I've seen their work, though). There are some good ones in Malaysia and Indonesia, as well. They could easily fix this for you. A good one might even figure out a way to put the logo back on for you. It will take some looking around on your part.
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Thank you JPmist!
You have some fine suggestions there, and i might consider a little bit of those D-I-Y myself.
I still don't get it why some people are still harping on 'humidity'. I thought the head was a plastic thing, some Lexan overlay whatever? And i thought the whole idea of using laminates is to prevent issues related to humidity? To me the issue here is poor material use as coating, or poor spraying/ laminating/ coating techniques. Clearly the manufacturer's fault, won't touch another of their instrument ever again.
And many of us are still wondering why you're harping on about Taylor lack of quality control for something you admittedly let get worse for a long time before addressing it and are now blaming the manufacturer for. We get it, you're mad at Taylor for this (justified or, as here, not) and you won't get another one. Thanks for letting us all know so many times in this thread.
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Thanks Doc Dan,
Yeah indeed there are some good luthiers in this region, i have bought some wonderful handmade instruments from them in the past. All-solid and exotic tone-wood, mind you, and not a single problem with 'humidity' so far.