Author Topic: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question  (Read 1608 times)

bigskykbb

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I don't own a Taylor (yet) but I have my eyes on several to add to the stable.

Would like to ask if anyone has experimented with a Baritone and lighter gauge (non baritone) strings.  I would like to drop at least a full step from standard tuning and all the guitars I now own sound muddy if you detune significantly.  Has anyone tried to put standard Medium gauge strings on a 27" scale baritone and tune it to C - c or C# - C# rather than the standard B - b?  What would you expect would happen.  I have been looking at the 326 and a string modification as a way to drop the key on some recent songs to make them easier to sing.  I suppose another option would be to buy a standard guitar and put heavy gauge strings on it.  Anyone out there have any advice which way to go?

Thanks
Ken

1972 Alvarez-Yairi 5065
1980's Guild F212XL 12 String
Breedlove S-20MYR
Rainsong WS1000

Earl

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 01:07:59 PM »
Welcome Ken, from neighboring Idaho.  I have done all of those things. 

My 416 baritone is currently wearing a set of EJ-18 heavy's (59-14) and tuned from C-C.  Any lower in tuning or gauge and they get a bit floppy.  A set of mediums (56-13) tuned to C# seem to work OK, with pretty low tension and very easy to play.  But they are on the verge of being too floppy at that lowered tension, and a truss rod adjustment was needed.  My goal was to get a lower tone - "capo down" - to make certain songs easier to sing and to take some pressure off my fretting hand.  B-B with actual baritone strings (70-16) accomplishes the lower pitch nicely, but the combination of the 27" baritone scale and the heavier gauge makes it just a bit too much for my slightly weakened left hand these days.  I can only play it for about 15-20 minutes in the original configuration / tuning, although I really like that deep growl. 

I have my Martin J-40 converted into a pseudo-baritone wearing the same strings and C-C tuning.  The 25.4" scale helps too.  D'Addario has a tension chart that you can use to put your own set together and investigate the various options.  Standard light gauge tuned E-E is about 165 pounds total, and standard mediums tuned E-E are about 195 pounds total.  Mediums tuned down to D-D is about the same as lights, around 160 pounds.

Hope this helps.
Taylors:  424-LTD (all koa) and a 114ce that lives with friends in Alaska.  Low maintenance carbon fiber guitars are my "thing" these days, but I will always keep the koa 424.  Several ukulele and bass guitars too. 
*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

bigskykbb

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2015, 11:59:29 AM »
Earl:  Many thanks for the informative reply.  It looks as if our thoughts were in-sync.  As many recent singers/songwriter tunes feature such a high vocal range, it would be nice to drop it a step or two to make it more accessible.  Do you play the 416 or the J-40 the most when trying to drop the key?  I use Medium EJ-17s on the Breedlove S20-MYR when playing in Open C.  It works fairly well but the base C (E) is tending toward muddy.  I had not tried to drop the entire tuning a full step on the Breedlove until this morning (after reading your post) and for my initial try it sounded OK.  Several of the songs I would like to play are in Dropped D and the C at the base with the  tuning down a full step was acceptable but not great.  I am trying to decide whether to put heavies on a standard scale guitar or get a baritone and do the same.  Any thoughts?
Ken

1972 Alvarez-Yairi 5065
1980's Guild F212XL 12 String
Breedlove S-20MYR
Rainsong WS1000

Earl

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2015, 03:26:29 PM »
Ken, I mostly play the J-40 because of its standard scale length.  It is my "short scale" baritone, but it has lived tuned down for years (mostly D-D with mediums).  As I mentioned before, the 416 baritone with its 27" scale is getting tough for my fretting hand, which is why it is for sale.  I suppose I could keep it and capo up a couple of frets to shorten the effective scale length, but that seems pointless when I have other guitars available to down-tune.

I play C tunings for some slack-key tunes [CGEGCE and CFCGCE and CGDGBE] and typically use a bluegrass set, or Elixir Medium-Lights.  Tuning down below D on the sixth / bass string really wants a medium gauge 56-59 to keep enough tension and avoid floppiness.  My J-40 is currently wearing heavies, and either gets tuned C-C (standard minus two steps) or sometimes it gets tuned D-D if I'm playing along with others.  I prefer to keep the capo below the fourth fret, or else the neck gets pretty short before running into the body.  Even heavies at D-D pitch are equivalent to mediums at normal E-E tuning.  That tension chart is real handy when you are experimenting in this realm.  I even put together a spreadsheet to test different combos of string gauge and tuned pitch.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 03:37:11 PM by Earl »
Taylors:  424-LTD (all koa) and a 114ce that lives with friends in Alaska.  Low maintenance carbon fiber guitars are my "thing" these days, but I will always keep the koa 424.  Several ukulele and bass guitars too. 
*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

CodeBlueEMT

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 12:13:14 AM »
 Hi Ken. Welcome to the UTGF. I was lost after "baritone". Glad you found us and met Earl. Enjoy. :)

 
Shayne

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TaylorGirl

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 06:03:07 AM »
Welcome to the forum Ken. That's the way to do it, jump right in!
Susie
Taylors: 914 ◎ K24ce ◎ 414 ◎ GSMeK+
Ponos: ABD-6C Master Series (Cedar/Acacia) ◎ MGBD-6 Deluxe (Mango) ◎ MB-6 (Mahogany)

Have been finger-pickin' guitar since 1973!

mgap

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Re: Hello from snowy Montana - new to Forum - Baritone string/tuning question
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2015, 09:34:40 AM »
Welcome to the forum bigskybb from your neighbor to the south, and it is snowy here also. 
He who loses money, loses much; he who loses a friend, loses more; he who loses faith, loses all.

George

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Hi Ken.  I'm like Shayne, so I'll just say "welcome to the forum" and leave the answers to the experts...