Shims size for neck reset

[Victorgnr]

Hello folks!! I’m Victor, from Argentina. I own a couple of Taylors, 214ce and 150e. Love the sound of both. The 150e has VERY high action (humidity here is very high too, usually 80%) so as soon as I brought the guitar to my country, the top got rounded upwards and the action went crazy high. I’m sure I need a neck reset. The only authorized luthier here is very far away, I don’t even know of I can afford it, but I have a well known luthier in town, who already built several electric guitars, and is definitely the guy for the job. i really trust his experience, skills and honesty. We haven’t started the job yet, I guess I can get some shims from Taylor shipped over some friends in the US and then I can get them here eventually. So, my question would be how can we determine the value of the shims I need?? Right now, at the 12th fret the action is 4.5 mm high, which is nonsensical for me. Any suggestion on how can I mesure the shims that I need? Taylor just answered me that we can simply find out by trial en error, but due to the distances and the time it would take me to get shims here in my town, it would take us for ever. My luthier is even confident on building the shims, but I’d like to have an idea of the approximate values I need first.

Would appreciate any help/advice. Thanks in advance Taylor folks!!!

Victorgnr

[jpmist]

I tried a reset on a Taylor neck once and brought the action down a tad which doesn't make me an expert by any means, but I'd have to say that Taylor is right, trial and error is the best you can do if you can't wait for their replacement shims.

I doubt anyone without the guitar in hand can give you anything useful. It's basically geometry, to drop the nut down to lower the action the soundboard shim needs to be thicker, the neck join shim thinner but you already knew that. You could literally sketch it out if you're able to be accurate enough - it's just a rotating right angle.

All I can offer is to be sure a moisture stable hardwood is used for the replacement shims and to go in 1 mm increments thicker/thinner until you've got the action fixed. Or maybe just wait for Taylor's shims?

Best of luck with it!

[Victorgnr]

Thanks for your response!!! I guess I was hoping to get more or less an estimate of the shim angle I need based on the 4.5 mm action I have on the 12th...

Your advice on the moisture stable hardwood is very useful since I haven’t really thought about that.

Thanks!!!

[Earl]

My understanding is that Taylor-trained techs measure the action and choose the correct shim from a provided table (which I have never seen).  If that doesn't work correctly they try the next size.  Shims are graduated in 0.002" increments and you have to change both the neck heel shim and the fret board pocket shim together.  Only Taylor authorized techs can get the shims, but that does not stop you or your luthier from making your own.  When I lived in Alaska, many players had a tall saddle for dry winter conditions when the top shrunk a bit, and a short summer saddle for damper months.  Even with careful humidity control, things changed seasonally.

If your relative humidity indoors is really 80% you probably want to have some silica gel desiccant packs in the case to dry things out.  Note that I said indoors - the outdoor RH is mostly irrelevant unless your guitar lives outdoors or you never close the windows in your home.  In other words, don't rely solely on the TV weather reports of outdoor humidity.  But is sounds like your guitar is badly swollen from excess moisture.  I suggest getting it back to normal 45-50% conditions before doing anything.

[Gabrielobrien]

I'm an authorized repair tech. Please don't attempt to do this yourself. Not only do you void your warranty but you could damage the guitar. Most of what's written here is actually wrong too, though Earl is giving you really solid advice on humidity, which is something anyone should address BEFORE making any other adjustments to the instrument.

[Edward]

Hi Victor,

Welcome from Argentina.  I loved eating/travelling there ...wow, the parrilla is king!  Missed it all!!

OK, so if you want to do this right, and I mean genuinely correctly and not just hunting and guessing, then you have to measure not just height at 12th fret, but straight edge along the fretboard and measure where it it relative to the saddle, as well as remove the neck and look at the shims you have.  THEN, take all this info and call Taylor with your actual numbers.  They will sell you sets of shims (the tech offered such to me) if you can convince them on the phone that you know what you're doing and won't muck up your guitar.  And even at that, you will likely still have to refit shims/neck more than once (unless you're just lucky) to get it truly where you want.  The measurements you give to Taylor will get them close so they can send you shim sets that are in the ballpark, but you ultimately have to do the trial/error work. 

So, are you willing to take all the necessary measurements, wait for the proper shim sets that are properly/precisely graduated, and remove/refit the neck multiple times to get the guitar where it suits you best? 

Or are you willing to entrust your "luthier" to use your existing shims, then remake several sets with the same beveled accuracy, in gradations to thousandths of an inch, and to the level of consistency as Taylor, themselves, accomplish with CNC machines?  Because, after all, it is the shims, themselves, that comprise the solid connection between the neck and body: any gaps or irregularities here and that connection --ahem, tonal connection-- is compromised.  But if your guy is that good to get to three digits, and consistently so, then he "simply" has to copy your pair and fabricate new sets in the proper increments.

I'm not being flippant, but this is the basic choice you have, as I see you describe it, anyway.  Your guitar, your call.  If you keep your existing shims, you can always come back to the original, so no harm done.  But if you are looking to reset your guitar's neck angle correctly and maintain its excellent sound and playability, then there is a right way, and maybe a less-than-right way.  There are many things one can accomplish perfectly well as DIY tasks, then there are other things that require more skill and tooling.  Just my thoughts here, sir

Edward

[Gabrielobrien]

Please note that what you really need is to dehumidify the guitar and keep the humidity between 60%. Adjusting the neck angle will not solve your problem and the action will keep creeping up as the body swells till the bridge peels off or something.