Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Lessons, Recordings, How Tos, Repair, Accessories => Topic started by: Eclimax13 on March 29, 2012, 07:57:08 PM
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Hi. While using a capo on the 2nd fret, I couldn't help but notice how much easier the guitar was to play at all the frets below. Also no fret buzz was present. So can I get my 814ce setup in such a way as to allow it to feel like it does with the capo on?
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I'm not really sure that I understand, but first of all, are you saying your 814 has fret buzz when not using a capo?
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No. I want to guitar to have the feeling of having a capo on it. As in the strings are much closer to the fretboard.
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well, ya lost me.....
You're talking about two different things.
When you are speaking about "the strings close to the fretboard", you are talking about the action. The action, and everything else, on my 814, right out o fthe box was perfect for me; no setup required. If you feel that it is too high on yours, then I would find a good, local, trust-worthy luthier who can perform a setup and adjust the action for you.
The capo is about pitch change or transposition. It really doesn't speak to the action of the guitar. If you play an open Emajor-chord, while capo'd on the 3rd fret, you are in fact playing a G Maj chord.
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hi eclimax,
i'm guessing that what you may be doing is tuning the guitar down one full step
(to DGCFAd) & then putting a capo on 2 to bring it back up to concert pitch (EADGBe) ???
chances are in order to get the action as low as you would like it to be without buzzing,
depending on how you play, the strings you use & to maintain adequate saddle height,
you may need to have the neck reset to specs that make the 'uncapoed' action more
to your liking, because if everything else is correct (action at the nut, neck relief & angle)
usually what one can expect by lowering the saddle is 1/64" lower action at the 12th fret
for every 1/32" taken off ... i've seen some pics of improperly 'set-up' guitars to where
the hi e end of the saddle is below the bridge slot :o , so it's important the guitar is looked
at by someone that is familiar & comfortable with, & has performed resets on, Taylor NT necks
a call to Taylor's customer service would give you some options in finding an authorized repair
center/tech close to your location & if the neck angle is correct at this time (to factory specs),
i would not expect the reset to be covered under warranty, as you desire a 'custom' set-up
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I believe you're wanting it to play at the first 3 frets un-capoed like it does capoed. It can be made to play very close to capoed(is capoed a word?) in the hands of a good tech. It requires lowering the strings in the slots on the nut. It also requires a properly relieved neck. A string slot cut .0005" too deep can be the difference in liquid action and rattling on the first fret. I know, I've trashed my share of nuts, and every once in a great while still go too deep. It's a painstaking adjustment w/a steep learning curve. Don't try it yourself without a pocketfull on extra nuts. ;)
Steve
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Not sure how long you've been playing Taylors but the action they set does seem a bit high to me as well. I took my 516 to a shop and they did a bit of work on the frets and such but said they set the action at factory specs and when I got it back it still seemed high. I noticed the Mini is the same way - the Taylor way.....
In the end I just made myself get used to the action as set by Taylor. I figured it was something I just needed to get used to and thru more practice I do not seem to notice it as much.
That said, I have been playing in open D tuning lately and tonight I dug up an old Dave Mason tune that's in open E. I don't like to tune my guitar to open E so while in open D I capo'd at the 2nd fret and it was nice to have such low action. When I tuned back to standard I noticed the difference.
I would take it into the shop and ask them to take a look and just make sure you don't have something going on that needs to be adjusted. You can discuss with the tech and they could probably adjust the action down if you'd like. Check out the Taylor website - they have a section on dealers and it's how I found the repair shop near me (and a bunch of new Taylors to try out ;D ).
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Steve, you are correct as far as what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not sure if everyone else was thinking too hard about what I was trying to say, or it just sounded great in my head and confusing to the rest of the world. I've never had an acoustic setup so this is why I was asking before going further. Thank you.
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I agree w/ TP 516. I do a full set-up on every one I buy. The only exception being the "99 414 I sent back to Taylor for a neck re-set. The tech that did it, knows his /her stuff. The "factory specs " don't suit me at all.
Steve
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Not sure how long you've been playing Taylors but the action they set does seem a bit high to me as well. I took my 516 to a shop and they did a bit of work on the frets and such but said they set the action at factory specs and when I got it back it still seemed high. I noticed the Mini is the same way - the Taylor way.....
In the end I just made myself get used to the action as set by Taylor. I figured it was something I just needed to get used to and thru more practice I do not seem to notice it as much.
That said, I have been playing in open D tuning lately and tonight I dug up an old Dave Mason tune that's in open E. I don't like to tune my guitar to open E so while in open D I capo'd at the 2nd fret and it was nice to have such low action. When I tuned back to standard I noticed the difference.
I would take it into the shop and ask them to take a look and just make sure you don't have something going on that needs to be adjusted. You can discuss with the tech and they could probably adjust the action down if you'd like. Check out the Taylor website - they have a section on dealers and it's how I found the repair shop near me (and a bunch of new Taylors to try out ;D ).
This is what I was after.
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When you take to a shop, ask to play an electric that they've set up w/10's. If they say they can't do it on your Taylor,thank them and take it elsewhere. Action at the nut is as critical as the saddle for a great playing guitar.I often cut my saddles on a 1" smaller radius to avoid doing fret work. It all depends on the guitar and the player.
Steve
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Like others, I figured out that the action at the nut was a bit high. I took it to a tech who lowered the nut slot(s) a bit and that took care of it.
Taylors are set up well from the factory, for the most part, but that does not mean that a setup can't improve on it!
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I received my new 414 last Thursday and dropped it off Tuesday with my tech to have it gone over. He was going to do some work on the 15th fret and up as well as lower the action a bit. The guitar played so much nicer than my Fender but I trust this guy and it was what he suggested. I miss it dearly.
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You might also consider looking for a short scale guitar as an option. That's what putting a on a capo does, in effect. I know that doesn't solve your issue with this guitar, but it is something you should try just for fun. With a short scale, (or a capo) there is less tension on the strings and they are much easier to press down.
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Taking it in for a proper setup by a guy who has been to Taylor and trained with them. He assures me he can make it as I described.
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Well he completely screwed up my guitar. And gave me am attitude for showing him that it buzzed out from 10th fret up
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What happened...... ???
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You might also consider looking for a short scale guitar as an option.
That's what I was thinking. Perhaps what you are liking about the capo feel is the shorter scale effect ... good setup to your playing style is always a good thing too ...
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The guys promised me everything I asked him to do. Lower the action without creating any buzz. "Sure, no problem man, I can go even lower than what you were thinking". Great, I said, but can that be done without any buzz. Absolutely he says. Check out all my plaques on the wall from various guitar companies.
Upon returning he tells me to test drive it. And that I'll be very happy. HA. The guitar is completely unplayable. Any sort of medium strumming creates buzzing and no matter what I do, any fret above the 10th lower e string buzzes right out. He tells me that this is normal when you lower the action. Then he tells me that I have to give up some sound for playability. Needless to say I was not happy and didn't pay him. Now I need to get a new saddle.
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Bummer, a PITA for sure... :( Did he just sand down the saddle or did he mess with the nut too?
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Just the saddle I believe. Plus he put a nice swirl mark, probably from changing the strings, in the top. Guitar was flawless when I gave it to him.
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Oh man, so sorry to hear that. Do you think you can buff out the marks? Not sure where you are but a shop might have a new saddle or a call to Taylor will get one PDQ.
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I'll be calling Taylor on Monday since this guy was on their authorized repair list. Even the guy who was standing behind me said his guitar buzzed after getting it back from him. I'm actually really depressed right now about my guitar. Luckily it's an easy fix. I can sand a saddle down and change strings. I was looking for this guy to file the nut, which he didn't.
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That sucks. But don't despair; you'll be able to put it right.
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My poor, poor 814. What have they done to you?
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Swirl marks? How'd he do that, changing strings ?
Saddle work should have been done off the guitar. He worked on the wrong end also. What you mainly wanted required nut work. Check your neck relief, he may have tightened the truss rod to make it play easier in lower positions. If another saddle isn't available you're gonna have to shim that one as a stop-gap solution. A piece of milk jug, cut from a flat section, will give you .015" -.025" in saddle height. Milk jugs are surprisingly consistent in thickness. Cut it a thin hair smaller than your saddle and drop it in the slot. Itdoesn't have to be rounded on the ends.
Or get some aluminum duct tape. Put it on the bottom,trim, and force the air out by pressing it very hard on a piece of pipe or similar that will roll as you press the length of the saddle across it. You'll gain about .006" per layer.
Maybe one of these will get you playin' again.
Steve
Oh yea. Drink the milk before cuttung the shim. ;)
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My poor, poor 814. What have they done to you?
Ok, listen up......the first thing you need to do is get out the Taylor pub glasses and fill them up with your favorite adult beverage. It won't be long before you start to feel better......
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My poor, poor 814. What have they done to you?
Ok, listen up......the first thing you need to do is get out the Taylor pub glasses and fill them up with your favorite adult beverage. It won't be long before you start to feel better......
Way ahead of ya. lol
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I'll be calling Taylor on Monday since this guy was on their authorized repair list. Even the guy who was standing behind me said his guitar buzzed after getting it back from him. I'm actually really depressed right now about my guitar. Luckily it's an easy fix. I can sand a saddle down and change strings. I was looking for this guy to file the nut, which he didn't.
sorry to hear about your 814, eclimax :(
i'm sure that Taylor will do everything they can to correct the situation &
hopefully there is another tech that is relatively close to your area -
i imagine the swirl marks were from smudges that occurred during the
'set-up restring' process & that to clean them off, whatever was used
(polish cloth, etc) had some abrasive material imbedded in it because
from what i seen, one has to really work at scratching the UV finish
i think that, perhaps, Taylor needs to implement a more refined/stringent qualification &
certification process for some of the techs that are on their authorized repair list ???
i haven't run across a 'bad one' yet & the tech that is my area (SE) is an exceptional one -
i've seen him reset the neck on 4 different Taylors, made from 02-03 & none of them came
with correct shim values from the factory, but i believe that this concern has been corrected
as i've played a few different 2012 models that had as nice of a set-up as i've seen in 01
just a hair under 5/64" E, they play effortlessly & the tone was exemplary (really sweet)
personally, i would not attempt to make any further alterations or adjustments -
it's kind of like trying to repair a car that's under warranty after it's been taken
to the dealer & had been 'misdiagnosed', even if it may make the concern 'better'
for the time being, as at that point it would be difficult to discern who did what
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All good suggestions guys. Thanks for the support. I might have to go buy a gs mini to hold me over.
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All good suggestions guys. Thanks for the support. I might have to go buy a gs mini to hold me over.
Now that's a positive attitude!
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Had it looked at and it seems the guy just went way too low with the saddle. So I bought a new one and am going to sand it myself.