Author Topic: Polishing a 414CE so it's now glossy rather than matte (and other stuff)  (Read 19504 times)

MexicoMike

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I'm new to Taylors, having just purchased a NOS 2008 414CE while visiting in Texas.  But it is quite easy to put a gloss "finish" on  a matte/satin surface.  I have done it on several guitars, most recently a Martin D16.  Takes maybe 30 minutes using some 3M Finesse-it II, available at most any auto parts store.  When completed, it will look exactly like a factory gloss finish.  The only issue is whether you want to "modify" the guitar in that way.  IMO, it's always well worth it but for resale purposes, it may not be a good idea because it won't be "original."  But I will be glossing my 414's back/sides when I get it back home next week.

Just follow the directions on the "Finesse-it" and the sides/back will look like glass. You don't need any tools at all, just the product and an old t-shirt is a polishing pad. Here's a pic of a Martin D16 side that was a matte/satin finish (like a 414) 10 minutes before this pic was taken.

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« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:20:52 PM by UTGF-Team »

cigarfan

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Hey Mexico ... does that product have any silicone in it?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:00:21 PM by UTGF-Team »
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MexicoMike

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No - no silicones.  It is essentially an extremely fine abrasive in a "cream" form used for polishing show-car finishes.  No silicones/waxes/anything like that at all.  It's used extensively in auto/boat re-finishing.  It can polish almost anything to a high gloss finish.  I've used it for years on cars and boat painted/fiberglass surfaces...as well plexiglas/lexan windows AND satin finished guitars! :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:00:36 PM by UTGF-Team »

MartinD

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"I hate that it has matte back and sides. "

I'm new to Taylors, having just purchased a NOS 2008 414CE while visiting in Texas.  But it is quite easy to put a gloss "finish" on  a matte/satin surface.  I have done it on several guitars, most recently a Martin D16.  Takes maybe 30 minutes using some 3M Finesse-it II, available at most any auto parts store.  When completed, it will look exactly like a factory gloss finish.  The only issue is whether you want to "modify" the guitar in that way.  IMO, it's always well worth it but for resale purposes, it may not be a good idea because it won't be "original."  But I will be glossing my 414's back/sides when I get it back home next week.

Just follow the directions on the "Finesse-it" and the sides/back will look like glass. You don't need any tools at all, just the product and an old t-shirt is a polishing pad. Here's a pic of a Martin D16 side that was a matte/satin finish (like a 414) 10 minutes before this pic was taken.

Hey Mexico,
Is this really as easy as it appears? I used rubbing compound then Meguiars wax on a beat up old Cort that I polished.  It took a ton of elbow grease and I did get a bunch of scratches out but the finish didn't look like a factory gloss.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:00:52 PM by UTGF-Team »
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MexicoMike

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"Is this really as easy as it appears?"

Yes - at least it has been every time I've done it on 4 different guitars in the last 2 years.  Of course, if the guitar is scratched/dented, Finesse-it can't fix that.  But as far as simply making a satin finish into a gloss finish it is pretty quick and easy.  If you look at the Taylor videos on Utube, you see them polishing guitar bodies with a large buffing wheel.  That's all that makes a satin finish into a gloss finish and that's essentially what you are doing with Finesse-it by hand.  Just takes longer.  They do it in maybe two or three minutes; it takes me around 30 to do back/sides.  Doing the headstock will require unstringing/removing the tuning machines which adds some more time.  I tried rubbing compound the first time I attempted this some years ago and it just didn't work very well at all.

Although I'm visiting in TX at the moment, if I have time I'll try to go out today and get a bottle of Finesse-it and polish the 414, or at least part of it.  I'll post a pic later so you can see the results of whatever I have time to do.  (We're visiting relatives so I can't just ignore everybody to go "do my own thing") :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:01:08 PM by UTGF-Team »

MexicoMike

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Here are a couple of pics shot with my old iPhone of the lower bout (upper curve in the pics) before/after some polishing.  I did this in about 5 minutes with Finesse-it II.  It is not yet to the "glassy" level but it will give you an idea - hope the pics show it decently.

I did notice that the Taylor finish, whatever material it is, seems tougher than that used on a Guild, a Martin, and a Seagull.  It takes more rubbing than the others did to "gloss up."  But that's just a matter or more time.  You could do it very quickly - just like the factory does, with a machine polisher BUT if you are not proficient, you can burn through the finish.  Doing it by hand makes it impossible to hurt anything.  I figure it will take 45minutes to an hour to do a nice job on the Taylor.

Again, I just did that curve in the upper part of the pics very quickly just to demonstrate and I had to get back to "being social."

« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:01:23 PM by UTGF-Team »

ctkarslake

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Thanks for sharing MxMike and please disregard my "contact Taylor first" comment on you other thread.  You seem to know exactly what you are doing!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:03:28 PM by UTGF-Team »
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zeebow

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awesome, I've seen someone on AGF do this. how long does that polish last? do you have to reapply often?

thx for the tip!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:01:38 PM by UTGF-Team »
1995 912C - englemann/eir
2009 xxxv-p - sitka/madagascar
2010 414ce - sitka/ovangkol (made on my wedding day!)
2011 914ce - cedar/eir
2014 martin 000-28 custom - adi/cocobolo
2017 BTO GC 12 fret - lutz/cocobolo
2019 BTO GC 12 fret - cedar/cocobolo
2019 sheeran w03 - cedar/santos rosewood
2019 lowden s35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/cocobolo
2020 lowden s35 12 fret alpine spruce/madagascar
2023 lowden wee wl-35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/madagascar
2023 martin 00-28 modern deluxe - sitka/eir

MexicoMike

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 you are polishing the surface of the finish and changing the actual finish from a satin one to a glossy one. You  are not using any sort of wax so there is no need to apply or reapply anything other than whatever cleaning you may wish to do.  Using the Finesse-it permanently makes the finish into a gloss finish.  You can vary the level of gloss by doing the rubbing for shorter or longer time.  You can make it slightly glossy, just a bit more than factory, on up to mirror-like.

I'll complete the work probably tomorrow after I get back home and post more pics.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:02:05 PM by UTGF-Team »

zeebow

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I can't stop thinking about polishing my 414ce now! can't wait to see pics
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:02:19 PM by UTGF-Team »
1995 912C - englemann/eir
2009 xxxv-p - sitka/madagascar
2010 414ce - sitka/ovangkol (made on my wedding day!)
2011 914ce - cedar/eir
2014 martin 000-28 custom - adi/cocobolo
2017 BTO GC 12 fret - lutz/cocobolo
2019 BTO GC 12 fret - cedar/cocobolo
2019 sheeran w03 - cedar/santos rosewood
2019 lowden s35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/cocobolo
2020 lowden s35 12 fret alpine spruce/madagascar
2023 lowden wee wl-35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/madagascar
2023 martin 00-28 modern deluxe - sitka/eir

MexicoMike

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I just bought my first Taylor - NOS 2008 414CE. I had posted a few days ago on a different thread about polishing it because I don't care for matte finish on guitars so I have polished several in the past so I decided to do the same with my 414.  At the same time I decided to replace the end pins with polished bone (I happened to have an extra set laying around that I bought for my D28 Martin but ended up not using) and make a new bone nut and saddle to replace the oem nut and saddle. So this morning I started on that at around 9AM, finished a 12:30.

I discovered that the finish that Taylor uses is considerably tougher than that used on other guitars I have polished.  Normally I use only 3M Finesse-It II (I'll call it "FI" from now on) for this purpose but I quickly found that I would have been rubbing all day to "glass" out the finish so I started with 0000 steel wool.  This alone will make the finish gloss a bit.  Then rub with a cloth/FI until the level of gloss you want is achieved - anything from just slightly gloss to glass-like.  You can't hurt anything doing this by hand.  You could use a polishing wheel like Taylor does at the factory but unless you know what you are doing, you could burn through the finish.  It's impossible for that to happen by hand.  Yes, it will take you an hour or more instead of 2-3 minutes like it does the factory guys.  It was well worth it and I love the look of the polished ovankol or whatever the heck the wood is called. 

I know some folks are really interested in the sound difference between the oem tusq (I think) nut and saddle/ebony pins and the new polished bone nut/saddle/pins.  Frankly, no one in the audience could ever tell the difference if you did a few tunes with the oem and then came back and did them again with the bone.  Yes, there is a difference if you do an A/B recording and listen one after the other.  The bone is a bit less bright but the difference in how you pick/pluck the strings from one instant to the next will make more difference.  And using a thick or thin pick makes a dramatic difference by comparison.  SO IMO, the difference is one of shades, rather than a change of color.  If pressed, I would say that I think I prefer the sound of the bone/bone/bone with the slightly reduced brightness but it's a very subtle difference.  Strings were 4 day-old DAddario PB lights.

Below are a few pics.  I hope they capture the appearance.  I realize that some folks may prefer the original look of the matte sides/back but I don't care for it and I don't like the look of the ebony pins either but all this is totally a matter of taste. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:02:39 PM by UTGF-Team »

zeebow

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Posted the results/comments/pics in the lessons/repairs/how to  section of the forum - seemed more appropriate there...

sweetness!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:03:45 PM by UTGF-Team »
1995 912C - englemann/eir
2009 xxxv-p - sitka/madagascar
2010 414ce - sitka/ovangkol (made on my wedding day!)
2011 914ce - cedar/eir
2014 martin 000-28 custom - adi/cocobolo
2017 BTO GC 12 fret - lutz/cocobolo
2019 BTO GC 12 fret - cedar/cocobolo
2019 sheeran w03 - cedar/santos rosewood
2019 lowden s35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/cocobolo
2020 lowden s35 12 fret alpine spruce/madagascar
2023 lowden wee wl-35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/madagascar
2023 martin 00-28 modern deluxe - sitka/eir

cigarfan

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Looks good. Nice job! Like you, I'm a gloss kind of guy.
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gdeleo

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Mike, you did a really nice job with your 414.  You ought to think about doing this for others (for a fee of course)!
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MexicoMike

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Thanks! But I don't think I'll make a profession of it!  :)

But really, anybody can do the polishing  if they just decide to do so.  At worst case, it might take longer than expected.  Heck, you can do a bit on it today, some more tomorrow, etc.  There's literally no way to screw it up.

One thing - Finesse-It II is not cheap but I've found it to be the best stuff for this and virtually any other other polishing purposes.  I bought a quart of it at an auto parts store a few days ago.  Note that when I say "polish" in this context, I'm talking about "rubbing out" the finish to a glossy surface.  Finesse It is not a wax or any other sort of coating.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 08:13:24 PM by UTGF-Team »