Dream guitar - its time! 614ce but what year?

[eatpasta]

Ever since I played the 614ce in the early 2000's, I was in love.  Since then, nothing has really come close .

Actually the 1990 712 that I bought is an amazing little guitar and I love it but compared to the 614ce, its apples/oranges.

Its taken me until now to get serious about picking one of these up - I have a couple grand saved and ready to start looking around.

The electrics are important as I will be playing this live so I'd like to find one newer than 2003 (for the balanced output of the expression system) -BUT- would it be worth it to try and find a newer one?

Ive found a few that are just a few years old with the newer expression system, bracing etc.... would it be worth it to try find a newer one or are they pretty much the same?

I have to say, Im VERY torn about the finish on the Maple.  I love that yellow maple flame on the older ones but that Honey finish on the new ones is really nice too....

Ideas?  Opinions? 

 

[Frettingflyer]

So, more knowledgeable people will reply, but Andy Powers “rejoiced” maple to sound like….not maple as we knew it. IIRC he retraced it to be a more middle of the road tonewood that would be good for most anything, I have played a few and they are nice, but I was never really a maple guy before.
My point, they are not mostly the same and you may wish to look for an older one. As for the ES, ES 1.3 was markedly better than 1.1 or 1.2. I am not sure of the years of each but a search of the forum will reveal the years of each. ES 2 gets mixed reviews, and I don’t play out through PA’s etc so I am not a good source of that, it works well on my amp.
So, I would think some research into the bracing, finish and ES of the various years would be worthwhile to ensure you get something like the one that wowed you back then.
Best of luck and let us know how the search goes.

[eatpasta]

So, more knowledgeable people will reply, but Andy Powers “rejoiced” maple to sound like….not maple as we knew it. IIRC he retraced it to be a more middle of the road tonewood that would be good for most anything, I have played a few and they are nice, but I was never really a maple guy before.

any wood used for a guitar is certainly relative.  Ive always loved Maple on Les Pauls (especially the DC with the AAA top!  Only guitar I have ever sold and ever regret having sold) and I love the flame that those early 2000's guitars have.

The Brown Sugar flame is beautiful as well, its just a bit more under stated.

[Strumming Fool]

Not sure if this post will be helpful, but here's my experience with Taylor's 614:

I've always been a fan of the 614 and the 714, regardless of the manufacture date - they're my favorite Taylors. The earlier 614s were great - some of the best maple guitars of any brand IMO. I even had Taylor custom build a maple grand auditorium for me in 2012: quilted maple with an Engelmann spruce top with tobacco sunburst finish on the entire body and neck. That was my pride and joy until I got a chance to play the newer version of the 614 in 2019. Andy Powers understood that maple should not be braced in the same way that rosewood or mahogany is traditionally braced. His redesign of the 614 in 2015, I think, really changed the game for me. My V braced 614 is a go-to guitar for any application instead of being a niche guitar as most previously built maple guitars were. Whether X-braced or V-braced, the newer 614s are both more sonically and visually elegant than their predecessors, again IMO. (I love that hand-rubbed brown sugar stain on these guitars!)

Regarding electronics, I don't believe that you would find a 2015 (or later) 614 with that ES1.3, which is also my favorite Taylor ES. Once I tried the ES2, I began ordering Taylors without the electronics, using an after-market pickup system that is less invasive and completely reversible. As such, my 2019 614 has an LR Baggs system instead of an ES, and it works beautifully. So, my advice would be ideally to find a 2015 (or later) 614 without electronics and have a good pickup system installed. If not, go for that 614 with the ES2 if you can work with it.

Good luck with your search!

[Earl]

The earlier 614s were great...... Andy Powers understood that maple should not be braced in the same way that rosewood or mahogany is traditionally braced..... (I love that hand-rubbed brown sugar stain on these guitars!).....I don't believe that you would find a 2015 (or later) 614 with that ES1.3, which is also my favorite Taylor ES.

I agree with all of this, having nearly bought an early 2000's 614 with bright candy apple red stain (they were doing colors back then).  My only maple Taylor was a 2010 vintage 615 with ES1.3, also my favorite factory pickup system.  I really like the brown sugar stain quite a bit, since we are generally used to dark brown back & side woods, like mahogany and rosewood.  But I have never seriously considered a V-braced guitar or anything with ES2 in it.  Take my comments with that grain of salt.....

[PaulWood]

I own a 2006 614ce that originally had the first ES system fitted (AA batteries - some of you will remember).
I loved that guitar - best I'd ever had (and my first Taylor). It looked beautiful and sounded beautiful.
Unfortunately, it reached the point where the electrics needed replacing - I was told it would have to be ES2. That was several years ago but, since I got it back, I've played it no more than a dozen times - the sound is awful compared to what it had been. I eventually decided to sell it and left it with my local Taylor-approved shop (pre-pandemic). After 6 months there had been no offers, so I brought it back home. As far as I can remember it still looks beautiful - but the sound sucks.
Eventually, I suppose I will replace the electrics, maybe with LR Baggs, but, even after all these years, I'm still smarting from spending £500 on the ES2 system and more expense feels like good money after bad! There's a couple of lessons in there somewhere!

[eatpasta]

thanks all - I appreciate your candid comments!

I'm hoping to put some offers out, possibly today

[Earl]

....it reached the point where the electrics needed replacing - I was told it would have to be ES2. That was several years ago but, since I got it back, I've played it no more than a dozen times - the sound is awful compared to what it had been.

That is unfortunate, Paul.  You are saying that the acoustic tone suffered from the conversion from ES1.1 (AA batteries) to ES2?  Perhaps it was the switch from an original bone saddle to a Tusq or Micarta saddle, which they say works better with ES2.  If it was the electronic tone, Taylor had to replace a number of early ES2 circuit boards to get better sound quality and output.  It seemed like maybe a system that was released before it was fully "ready for prime time".

The ES2 system is quite invasive compared to UST's, with three exposed holes through the bridge.  Yes, they do a decent job of camouflage, but the holes are still there when you must eventually replace the electronics.  Maybe ES2 works better than previous systems, maybe not.  (I have my opinion on that, as evidenced by not owning any ES2 equipped guitars).  The guitars themselves can last centuries if well cared for, but the electronics maybe a decade in regular use.  Having had a volume control in a T5 fail and discovering that the entire modular control system (circuit board, wiring harness, etc) had to be swapped out to resolve just a scratchy volume pot, my confidence in Taylor pickups is shaken.  When they no longer support a legacy system, you are up the proverbial creek.  If the ES1.3 system on my only remaining Taylor guitar dies, it will be replaced by something else.

If it were me, I would remove the ES2 outright, let a luthier plug those holes in the bridge with ebony, get a new bone saddle made to fit, and replace the pickup with a K&K Pure Mini and an outboard pre-amp.  And this wood plug system has come up before when removing the electronics entirely:
https://shawwoodshop.com/products/expression-system-retro-kit-taylor-acoustic-guitars

[PaulWood]

Thanks for that, Earl. I realised, after posting, that I should have clarified that it was the electrified tone that suffered. The natural acoustic tone remains a joy. The problem is almost 100% of what I do requires me to be 'plugged in'.
We may be getting off the thread subject here but, hopefully, it may be useful to a prospective 614ce (or any Taylor) owner?
I was in fact, given a new circuit board. It did make a difference, but it was marginal and after a couple of outings it went back in the case.
Like you, I will never buy another Taylor with ES2 fitted. My three GCs all have ES1.3. The newest one was retrofitted in Amsterdam, on my instructions, before I bought it (at additional cost, although at the time, it would have been gratis, if I had it done in production).

[DenverSteve]

I've loved the look of Maple guitars over the years but have never found one I wanted to keep.  For me, Maple (like Koa) varies too much, from guitar to guitar, to buy one without playing it first.  I hope you find a great one.

[Earl]

My maple 615ce was a joy and its tone compared favorably to my koa & spruce GS/K when I bought Mr. 615.  (It was likely the last x15 jumbo made in late 2010 according to the Taylor rep).  I think the jumbo body helped to better balance the inherent brightness of a maple guitar. 

However my right shoulder was severely injured in a nasty fall 3½ years ago, so playing a jumbo became uncomfortable.  Down the road it went.  The new owner still loves it, along with his 2021 V-braced 814.  I just spoke with him yesterday, and he plays both 615 and 814 regularly.

[eatpasta]

thanks again for all your input.

after some research there's simply no way that I can afford anything V braced - they are simply too new.  Realistically, the only thing that i could really afford was something from about 15 years ago.

I found a shop that put a 2005 on sale which put it within my reach and I went for it.

It should be here this week!  Really hoping this one is as good as I remember 614's being when I first played one

[Earl]

Congrats, and fingers crossed that it works out wonderfully for you.  A 2005 vintage likely means the ES1.1 system (AA batteries) but that system worked fine for me.  I didn't use that particular guitar much to perform with, having other guitars handy for performance purposes.

[eatpasta]

thank you!  Fingers crossed as well - that maple flame gets me every time, I really hope its a good one.

I love my 712 but the sound hole pickup just does not sound very good and I hate having to pop that thing in and out

Now I need to figure out a way to tell my wife that I need to keep them both....... and the baby Taylor that she bought me 15 years ago..... and all my other Les Pauls and strats etc

 

[Strumming Fool]

I'm excited that you were able to find a 614 within your reach. I look forward to seeing pics when you have a chance. I'm sure she's a beauty. Congrats!