Will rosewood 400s be the end of Ovangkol?

[Strumming Fool]

From a construction perspective, they're pretty much the same. It's really just a matter of different aesthetic elements.

[Earl]

I sense a disturbance in the force.......  As long as we are speculating wildly anyway without any real info, maybe Taylor is heading down the "New Coke" and "Classic Coke" road?  A change of formula with legacy construction versus new Andy Powers construction?  Perhaps the 400 and 700 will remain legacy models for fans of the classic Taylor tone, with those appointments and bracing combos, while the 500, 600, 800 and 900 will be all Andy.

I also hope they don't also go down the Martin path, where there are so bloody many models with crazy names like SWOMGTPAWXYZBFD16.  Even a long time enthusiast cannot keep them straight anymore, beyond the standard series (D-18, D-28, D-41, J-40, etc).     

[Edward]

...As long as we are speculating wildly anyway without any real info..."

...maybe Taylor is heading down the "New Coke" and "Classic Coke" road?  A change of formula with legacy construction versus new Andy Powers construction?  Perhaps the 400 and 700 will remain legacy models for fans of the classic Taylor tone, with those appointments and bracing combos, while the 500, 600, 800 and 900 will be all Andy....

On point 1, I had read it (can't remember if it was W&S or elsewhere) that Bob, himself, said there were "problems" with procuring ovangkol, with the "problems" being all the requisite verification required that would assure him the wood was, in fact, procured ethically.  He mentioned CITES, but I also recall him throwing in his personal two cents about being "responsible" about wood and all the people involved in that chain.  In other words, a similar path (if not identical) of the factory's decision to no longer offering cocobolo.  If he doesn't feel comfortable in getting it, then he won't use it seems to be the clear gist of his rationale.

The "change in formula" not only has been in play since the intro of the Limiteds in 2013, it is clearly the trend of the company.  With Bob's outspoken endorsement and confidence in Andy in numerous publications and interviews, coupled with the way recent production lines have shifted both in voicing changes and aesthetics, it is abundantly clear that Andy is the new "voice" of the guitars forthcoming.  One's opinions will be what they may, but Andy's hand firmly at the wheel is clearly undeniable.  What remains to be seen is how much of "pre-Andy" will exist as the company rolls forward.

Edward

[Strumming Fool]

Good points, Edward.  We should accept the fact that Taylor guitars will not be carbon copies of Bob's designs, but a reflection of Andy's approach to guitar construction. I do hope that the company remains true to its heritage of innovation, versus paying too much attention to tradition. There are plenty of companies around who habitually engage in that practice.

The guitar playing community is in need of more  flavor choices in both materials and construction.

[ntotoro]

Unless you think Andy is trying to move "non-traditional" woods into more of a "traditional" tone in some cases...

I have several Martins and Taylors and the absolute, most amazing guitar I've ever played in any style is my Bourgeois Country Boy OM. Good example of trying to go "traditional," but get something different in the end, whether through construction or otherwise.

Nick

[DannyF]

As long as we are speculating wildly anyway without any real info...

From reading this article it looks like Maple, not Rosewood, would be the wood of choice.
Rumors
Danny

[michaelw]

rosewood will likely be around longer (more sustainable)
than ovangkol, but there is still ovangkol available -
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1103096016.php?CategoryID=105&n=9

maple, & other procurable tonewoods,
from the US is also a very viable option -
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1103216123.php?CategoryID=105&n=3

[chuckie egg]

CITES propose listing all Dalbergia species

In view of this, how likely is it that Taylor will continue to offer Rosewood 400s? Will they stay with Ovangkol or use another wood instead? 🤔

[NavyChap]

Was the 400 series always made with Ovangkol?  I just picked up a 1997 414ce and sent email to Taylor for "specifics" on it -- they replied back stating that the back and sides were "mahogany" -- is that "generic" for Mahogany/Ovangkol?  Do I have a Mahogany model or an Ovangkol?  Or is "Mahogany" and "Ovangkol" (African Mahogany) the same??  Thanks.
Jim

[timfitz63]

CITES propose listing all Dalbergia species

In view of this, how likely is it that Taylor will continue to offer Rosewood 400s? Will they stay with Ovangkol or use another wood instead? 🤔

Hmm.  That can't be good news at Taylor; or Martin; or most other acoustic guitar manufacturers -- except perhaps Rainsong...

I would guess Taylor will exhaust whatever Rosewood supply they have while they consider what will become of the 400 Series.  If all Rosewood (Dalbergia) sub-species become trade-restricted, I can't see it being cost effective for Taylor to offer budget-level Rosewood guitars.  And if they voluntarily step away from Ovangkol to protect harvest workers in Africa, what's left for them to use in the 400 Series...?

Was the 400 series always made with Ovangkol?  I just picked up a 1997 414ce and sent email to Taylor for "specifics" on it -- they replied back stating that the back and sides were "mahogany" -- is that "generic" for Mahogany/Ovangkol?  Do I have a Mahogany model or an Ovangkol?  Or is "Mahogany" and "Ovangkol" (African Mahogany) the same??  Thanks.

Mahogany and Ovangkol are different species; in fact, the information on the Taylor web site states that Ovangkol is related to Rosewood.  Sapele is more closely related to Mahogany.

Many moons ago the 400 Series was Mahogany back and sides.  For whatever reason (perhaps the introduction of Ovangkol...?) Mahogany was shifted to the 500 Series; I'm not sure what year that happened, but if Taylor says your 414ce is Mahogany, I'd believe it.

[ice4351]

I purchased a 458e ovangkok 12 string 3 months ago.  As it turns out, it was the same 458e you use to see on the Taylor's website.  As I am now living in Thailand, I'm waiting for someone I know to bring it to me when they come to Thailand.  Also it was the prototype--it may be the last of the ovangkol guitars.  I an anxious to play and and plan to hang on to it for a long time.

[HAPPYDAN]

Well, I searched far and wide to find a 412e-R LTD. The more I play it, the more I like it. 'Nuff said.