Taylor's series organization -- your thoughts?

[ataylor]

Since this was deemed off-topic for the website sticky thread, I'll start one here.

It seems that Taylor has a structural issue that goes beyond the website when it comes to their series lineup. With the newest W&S it appears the focus has been shifted to acoustic/electric models, with what was formerly called the "Acoustic Series" getting a little bit of a back seat in the lineup and lumped together under the section "Non-cutaway." Yet on the website -- depending on how you search for various models -- they are often listed along with the numbered acoustic/electric series, or -- if you do some digging -- listed by individual appointment level as the "Acoustic 3 Series" and so forth.

Is it confusing for anyone else?

Part of me wonders if the non-cutaway models should be phased back into the numbered series lines like the good old days. It would certainly mean less confusion since they're currently straddling the fence depending on if you're looking through the website or the guitar guide -- to say nothing about looking at and exploring the guitars in person.

But then part of me thinks Taylor really was on to something with the Acoustic Series and the toned down appointments across the board, focusing on the wood type and body type rather than the appointments (I could go for a wood rosette over the abalone on these guitars, by the way!) or electronics. We were even led to believe at one point that the Acoustic Series was voiced and/or constructed differently from the Acoustic/Electric Series, which made a lot of sense.

As someone who prefers guitars in their purest form without a lot of bells and whistles, I'm probably still partial to the latter. But then again, maybe Taylor has decided to go full-steam ahead with their bread and butter -- cutaway guitars with factory-installed pickup systems. And maybe they're hoping folks like me that know what they want will go through the BTO route, which could often be the case.

Curious what your thoughts are. Was the Acoustic Series a good move? Should it live on and be more distinct from the stage-ready models? Or should Taylor consolidate the line and apply the numbered series appointments to non-cutaway guitars?

[sachi]

I've never liked the split between letter series and number series. It is unnecessarily confusing. I'd prefer to have Taylor use the letter series designations, modified as necessary to account for the a-e and cutaway models, because the letter series specify the relative sizes to people who are not otherwise familiar with Taylors.

[Tammany Tiger]

I am really glad to see this thread get started.

I do not think that there has been any fundamental change in the Taylor line but that is certainly hard to tell that from the new website or, as commented here, from Wood & Steel. I discussed this issue with a very knowledgeable dealer today and he told me that so far as he has been told there is still a distinction between the acoustic electrics and the straight acoustics in terms of voicing and construction (lighter in the acoustic only guitars). Obviously there is also the cosmetic difference.

I would love for someone from Taylor to chime in here and clarify where things stand.

[michaelw]

i've noticed a few changes this year. with none of them being
what i would consider to be too extremely 'radical' (imho)

* Acoustic/Electric - (was CE in 98-06) now includes 12 string
models (were 'listed' separately in 07) & - N models, with the
aesthetics now in-line with the 300/900 steel strings (was NS) &
additions are the 316, 356 & 456ce & X56ce's replace the X54ce's

* Acoustic Non-Cutaway  -  was Acoustic series in 07,
includes an 'e' designation for 3-8 series with ES
(the GA3/4-12s stay, with 'e' models added) &
organization is now by Series, in the same way the
Acoustic Electrics have been, rather than by body shape.

for example
6 series - DN6, GC6, GA6, GS6, GS6-12,
rather than DN series 3-8, GC series 3-8, etc

W & S describes the Acoustic non-cutaways by series (3&4, 5-8 & K),
but shows organizaton by shape (on the sidebar, with 33 'e' models),
as there is a very small section used to show them (no other changes)

* Specialty Models have separate 'section' -
Baritone (6 & 8 string) & 12 fret, GS & GC models, rosewood & mahogany

800/900 steel strings are unchanged (save for the X56ce replacing the X54ce),
the 100s are unchanged & the 200s add the -BLK (was DDX), SB & -N models

100/200 series are 'separate', as their designations remain the same -
the 110/114/210/214 & 214e-N are unchanged & the aesthetics of these 5
non-cutaways are the same as on the CEs (no DN1/GA1/DN2/GA2 & GA2e-N)


the reason i believe the restructuring has been going on (since 07) is to
allow the movement of adding or replacing models as the need arises -
if all of the models & designations were kept, in addition to the new ones,
there would be well over 400 standard models, compared to just under 200

just one example
600 series
610, 610e, 610ce, 612, 612e, 612ce, 614, 614e, 614ce, 615, 615e, 615ce
616, 616e, 616ce, 654, 654e, 654ce, 655, 655e, 655ce, 656, 656e, 656ce
612ce-N (was NS62ce), 614ce-N (was NS64ce)

600 Acoustic Electrc
610ce, 612ce, 614ce, 616ce, 656ce, 612ce-N, 614ce-N
6 Acoustic Non Cutaway
DN6, DN6e, GC6, GC6e, GA6, GA6e. GS6. GS6e

there was not a standard 614 offered (there was a 02 LTD model) &
the 610, 612 & 615 turned into C & CE models in the mid/late 90's &
by offering the DN6, GC6, there are 'standard' configurations that
have not been seen, in some cases, for a good number of years

the 12 string GA (except for 3/4) & all JM models have been removed
from the standard line, with the X56ce taking the place of the X54ce,
these models can be BTO'd & a designed JM is in the near future

true, the designations might be able to be simplified further, but i'm
wondering if a GS6-12ce would be more easily understood than a 656ce ...
or a GS-C OSgte (GS cutaway Ovangkol Sitka gloss top ES), rather than a 416ce

i've heard that the wood thickness for the back & sides on the acoustic,
now acoustic non-cutaway was specific to the woods being used & that
on the acoustic electric (CE models) the specs being used were to help
facilitate the build process (especially in bending the side for the cutaway)

as specifications are subject to change without notice, imho, contacting a Taylor CSR
would likely be the best option, or your favorite dealer, for the most up-to-date info,
to ensure that there is no misnterpretation & specific areas can be clarified in detail

ymmv

[Gary0319]

I've never liked the split between letter series and number series. It is unnecessarily confusing. I'd prefer to have Taylor use the letter series designations, modified as necessary to account for the a-e and cutaway models, because the letter series specify the relative sizes to people who are not otherwise familiar with Taylors.

 

In concept I tend to agree with Sachi. But I'd go the other way around and revert to the numbered way the it was "back in the  day"

To go with Michael's 600 series example; 612 (no cutaway, no elctronics - the curent GC6), 612e (no cutaway but electronics), 612ce (cutaway with electronics). If the bracing on the no cutaway version is different, so be it. If the appointments are different, that's OK too.
Just let it be what it is. Kind of the old KISS (Keep It Simple S...).

Now, the issue of the web site is a whole 'nuther can of worms, but at the very least the designations (and orgnization) of the models should be consistant with the rest of the published literature and the price list.

Gary     

 

[michaelw]

hi gary,
since the acoustic series in 07, the bracing has mostly been the same (Standard II on 300-700s)
on the standard models, with various LTDs models in the past 4 years that had CV or adi CV

the CV bracing was phased-in in 09, on the 8/800 & 900 series, & the Standard II bracing
began in 03 on the 500/up X10s, then X15s, the X12s (with short scale & 4 3/8" body depth),
the X14s in the fall of 04 &, finally, the 300/400s by late 06 (i had a Fall 06 410 Standard II) -
i believe that the bracing is the same profile on the AE cutaway & 'full-body' acoustic models

the wood thicknessing, i heard, was specific to the wood  being used, possibly with more emphasis
on the back rather than the sides, on the acoustic  series, while the thicknessing on the acoustic
electric  models was specific to the shape  being made &, i'm not sure but, i think that there might
the factor of being playing out in widely varying environments that may  have been considered on
a cutaway model to where the back & sides might vary just a bit, in order to place a bit more emphasis
on the durability/stability of the instrument over the long haul, as 'gigged' guitars may  have it 'rougher'

i could be completely wrong on this & since there are dedicated 'e' models in the acoustic non-cutaway line,
it could  be possible that the changes in thicknessing may  have been discontinued, as the phase-in of
these models may  be because there are more non-cutaways being ordered/sold with pick up systems &
perhaps the overall market is where it is becoming more desirable to have electronics already installed

imho, it would be nice if it were possible to order a jumbo, or non-cutaway model, with the same appointments as
the AE models, especially in the 800/900 series, for the same $, & a discount for deleting the cutaway/electronics,
without having to go the 'full-bore' BTO route - in a way, it was done in the past with the 810/910 legacy models
 

[Gary0319]

Thanks Michael,

I actually meant to note the wood/thickness difference for the acoustic  series as you outline. I  typed bracing by mistake.

I guess that as Taylor has added a substantial number of new models, the challenge is to highlight the differences and still try to maintain some semblance of order in the numbering scheme. This is obvously more difficult than most would assume, myself included. Look at the years of confusion there has been with the Martin offerings.

But, if it were not for all this model minutia.....what the heck would we talk about?

Thanks for the clerification,


Gary 

[michaelw]

Thanks Michael,

I actually meant to note the wood/thickness difference for the acoustic  series as you outline. I  typed bracing by mistake.

I guess that as Taylor has added a substantial number of new models, the challenge is to highlight the differences and still try to maintain some semblance of order in the numbering scheme. This is obvously more difficult than most would assume, myself included. Look at the years of confusion there has been with the Martin offerings.

But, if it were not for all this model minutia.....what the heck would we talk about?

Thanks for the clerification,


Gary

you're welcome Gary,
i can think of a few more things to talk about

BTOs, potential Spring & Fall LTDs, the next run of BR guitars & amps,
when the ukes & amps might be available on their own or classicals ...

or, a simple congrats on hitting 100 posts & 'full member' under your username
CONGRATS !