Silly Twelve String Question

[BobSol]

Hi Guys
            What would be the effect of swapping the high octave G string and replacing it with its twin. In other words having the three highest pitch pairs tuned as pairs. The reason I'm asking is I've been hacking away at "Wanted Dead Or Alive" and the high G in the twiddly intro really grates to my ear.  Ta.

[Earl]

I do a lot of fingerpicking on my 12-er.  I switched the octave and the wound string, so that my finger would hit both on the upstroke.  Otherwise, the picking finger only hits the octave string and misses the wound one entirely.  (You don;t notice this when strumming).  I've never tried doing what you suggest, but it is intriguing.

[timfitz63]

What would be the effect of swapping the high octave G string and replacing it with its twin. In other words having the three highest pitch pairs tuned as pairs. The reason I'm asking is I've been hacking away at "Wanted Dead Or Alive" and the high G in the twiddly intro really grates to my ear.  Ta.

I've read that the 'G' course on a 12-string can be tuned either in unison or as an octave pair.  Either way is apparently 'acceptable,' and if the unison tuning sounds better for a particular song, that would be the way to go.  It's just that I think the octave pairing is probably done more commonly, so it may seem 'odd' to tune the 'G' course in unison...

[Edward]

You can try it.  But FWIW, I play "Wanted" too and totally understand what you mean ...as well as in general play.  The simplest fix to this annoyance is to upstroke the G pair.  I've gotten to the point where if I'm not strumming, this picking action now comes naturally to me.

I've even read of folks removing the octave g, making for an 11 string.  I tried this temporarily (easy enough to try), and it was fine for "Wanted," but I missed that octave string for other songs.  I can't imagine tuning that plain string any lower, though, as I'd imagine it'd be pretty floppy and loose and likely sound horrid. 

Edward

[tedtan]

That descending arpeggio sequence in "Wanted Dead Or Alive"  was performed on a mandolin when they recorded the song, and since mandolin string courses are tuned in unison rather than octaves, you don't hear the octave in the original recording.

The G string notes in that part are all upstrokes both when alternate picking and fingerpicking, too, so the easiest way to get around the octave issue is probably switching the strings like Earl mentioned above and using upstrokes on the G string. You might also try muting the octave G string with the side of the finger you're using to fret the D string notes with, too. Just be careful not to mute the normal G string accidentally, too.

[Edward]

Recorded on a mando? really?!!  I'd never heard that ...interesting!

Edward

[BobSol]

Thanks for the illuminating replies. I actually meant to fit two wound strings same gauge in the G slots. I'm really not good enough yet to alternate the picking, it was just that the intro sounds better on a six string than a twelve despite the recording being a twelve. The mandolin explanation makes total sense. I've got a spare set of strings so I think I'll try it anyway provided the string sits in the nut OK. Thanks again guys.

[tedtan]

Recorded on a mando? really?!!  I'd never heard that ...interesting!

Edward

You know, I don't have any inside info on the recording sessions, but from listening to the intro seems to have a little more of a punchy attack than a guitar would. I guess they could have used some kind of compressor or Transient Designer to get that from a guitar, though.

I do remember seeing Richie with a custom triple neck Ovation around that time: a six string, a twelve string and a mandolin. Here's a picture of him with it:

[Edward]

Gotcha, Ted.  Cool pic ...makes me miss my ca.70s Custom Legend (deep bowl whose sound never failed to silence every Ovation-hater I encountered, no exaggeration ).  But that 911 in the corner gives me yet another reason to like Richie ...the man's got taste, to be sure! 
Thanks for sharing!

Edward

[MikeB]

Note that if you switch the octave G to a wound G (or reverse the two strings), you'll need to work on the nut slot(s).

[BobSol]

Hi Guys
            It's not possible without major surgery. Mike, you're right, a wound G won't fit the nut without irreversible filing and the bridge is a multi facetted work of art. Ah well, must practise more, must practise more, must pract ZZZZZZ !

[Earl]

Note that if you switch the octave G to a wound G (or reverse the two strings), you'll need to work on the nut slot(s).

True, but once you widen the nut slot to switch the wound and the octave G strings, you can go either way with future string changes.  I find it worthwhile to get the desired sound when fingerpicking.  I dislike missing the lower G string when the finger strokes upward with the standard configuration, and it makes no audible difference when strumming.

[Guitarsan]

Seems like switching the strings might cause binding at the nut would be my only concern.

[Earl]

No argument, hence the "widening the nut slot" comment that I made above.