Who knew?

[tbeltrans]

Again, I 'm  glad to own both older and newer Taylors, after having owned Lowden, Santa Cruz, along with Martin, Gibson, Guild, Ovation, Takamine and Larrivee among others. The variety I now enjoy with my Taylor GAs is due to age, shape, bracing and wood choices. So after all that searching, I am a big Taylor fan who can still appreciate other brands with the quality they offer. But my approach has resulted in the guitar getting out of the way of my performance. No matter which one I pick up, the adjustment is virtually non-existent.

In any case, we are experiencing a Renaissance of  guitar building these days with something for everyone.  Just look at Bourgeois, Collings and Santa Cruz as fine examples of 21st century craftsmanship. Isn't it great?

Agreed.  Many fine guitars to be had these days.  As per my signature, I also have a William Kelday and a couple of original CA Guitars Cargos.  From what I read, Ellis Seal, who developed the Cargo, was an engineer who developed the carbon fiber materials for the space shuttle and for the Boeing 757.  He is a guitar player who wanted to apply his knowledge to building guitars.  As for William Kelday, I don't know much about him, so I can't really say one way or another.

M19's point is taken.  I should have worded my post a bit differently.  However, as posted by jrporter (thanks for the info, by the way), Bob Taylor was looking for somebody who also played guitar.  I assume Taylor had a reason for that.  I suspect most of these builders play at least SOME guitar.  I have seen some videos featuring George Lowden, and he certainly seems comfortable on the guitar fretboard.  Whatever the case, there is a very wide array of fine instruments to choose from these days, something for everybody and we don't all have to bond with the same type of instrument.  I personally am amazed by the more recent guitars Taylor is putting on the market.  I have always expected top notch from the small shop and individual builders, and they certainly don't disappoint.

Tony

[michaelw]

andy is a self taught luthier and a pro player, which is why,
among countless other reasons, bob pursued him to come to Taylor -
they have a common bond and friendship with musician jason mraz

that being said, i don't believe that a luthier must  be a pro level player
in order to build guitars that players desire to purchase & play for the
simple reason that probably 95%, or more, of people that play guitar
are not at the pro level, but can still appreciate tone, playability & quality -
for those, an instrument that suits their style of play can make them
sound better & inspire them to spend more playing & exploring what
that instrument has to offer, creating an expansion of their musical palette

now, if a luthier builds an instrument that requires a pro level player's abilities
to get every last bit of nuance & tone the instrument has to offer, then for the
other 95% or so, that same guitar may not be 'all that & a bag of chips', which can
be a rather difficult spot to be in, if there are 150,000-175,000 guitars made a year

does a pro player automatically make a better luthier?
imho, not necessarily

a luthier does  need to have the ability to fine tune the instrument during the
building process, in order to produce the tone they envision for that guitar,
but they do not need to be able to sell out stadiums & world wide tours

i'm thinking along the line of a car analogy -
ford builds hundreds of thousands of 6 cylinder automatic mustang coupes for
rental fleets each year, but they also build the mustang GT and shelby GT350/R

there are aftermarket tuners (hennessey, roush, saleen & steeda) that take a
435hp mustang GT and upgrade the engine, driveline, suspension & brakes,
while increasing the power level to the 750-780hp range (with a supercharger) -
avis, budget, enterprise, hertz & national don't normally rent a steeda Q750

the average driver can get into trouble with a 300hp 6 cylinder vehicle, but
if the power level is doubled & then increased another 25% or so, only those
that the ability bordering on a pro race driver can only begin to explore the
limits of that vehicle, which has been tweaked to within an inch of it's life

imho, bob is being extremely modest about his playing abilities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYKdzfOG0M8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v1Lycygn8M

ymmv

[jrporter]

michaelw: I get what you're saying and don't really disagree, but a cooking analogy might be more apt since cars are built on assembly lines, not by a single person. I know that Taylors aren't built by a single person, but that is what Andy Powers (and many other builders) did prior to his coming to Taylor. Not sure if this is true; but I assume that when he is developing or reworking a new design, Andy would do the build himself. Those same cars aren't test driven by the builders whereas chefs both prepare and test their foods. It would make sense that a good chef would have an exacting palate, but I recall a vegetarian contestant on Masterchef preparing but not tasting meat dishes. According to the judges, her dishes were exquisite despite not having sampled them. One could only wonder if that same dish might have been improved upon by a chef who actually tasted it versus one with the technical skills and/or memory necessary to combine the correct ingredients in the correct proportions and hope for the best. The same might be questioned of a guitar builder who has the technical building skills but hasn't the requisite playing skills to coax every nuance out of a stack of wood...

[tbeltrans]

To me, it does not make sense that any given pro player would make a good luthier, or even a luthier at all.  A person can certainly be interested in playing guitar, while having absolutely no interest in woodworking.

However, it does seem logical to me that a luthier or a guitar repair person would at least have SOME passing familiarity with playing guitar so that s/he has some idea of what the end goal of the build process is to be.  I don't think I ever said that the luthier has to be a pro level player.  Even the ability to play around with some basic chords, and be able to do so fingerstyle, if that is the type of instrument being built.  To me, this seems logical, but may seem totally out in the weeds to somebody else here.

We can examine this idea to no end, but I am not sure what that actually gets us.  Maybe I should have set up some sort of poll (assuming this site supports that) and people could agree or not that this seems logical.  In the end, does it really matter?  To me, it makes perfect sense that Andy Powers plays guitar, whether pro level or not has nothing to do with it in my mind.  His guitars seem extremely playable right out of the box, so to speak.  I think that one possible explanation is that both he and Bob Taylor (based on information provided in this thread), get it - the combinations of little things that make a guitar playable for the player.

Maybe this does not make any sense to some others here, will it seems to, to others here.  A person could make an argument either way, but why?  Does it REALLY matter in the end?  Since I am not Andy Powers and I don't know him, this is completely conjecture on my part.  I am expressing a belief, not a fact here.  Nobody has any more or less truth in this unless s/he personally knows Andy Powers.  I have a lot of respect for the work he is doing at Taylor, and maybe I should leave it at that.

By the way...thanks jrporter for your insights.

Thanks,

Tony

[jalbert]

OP: yes, I knew. In 2013 I had the pleasure of seeing him perform in a house concert. A tip of the ol' hat (or cap in this case) to Mr Powers; Taylor's in good luthierie hands.