Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: antsap on February 23, 2017, 11:18:30 PM
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I've been playing for years ... probably 26 years or so. I started on the piano when I was 5, and eventually started banging around on my father's junky parlor acoustic. To this day he keeps a good one tucked in a case under his bed and mostly plays a death machine garbage picked piece of crap that sits on a stand in the parlor. I try to tell him that life is too short to play junky instruments unless you have no choice but I get better results banging my head against the wall.
I've been playing in electric bands since I was a teenager. About 10 years ago my brother and I started doing an acoustic two piece act. I picked up a $xx alvarez acoustic/electric around that time and it was the nicest acoustic I ever owned. Fast forward a bunch of years and my brother bought a 214ce. That guitar blew me away ... the action and sound and fit/finish were really impressive.
Fast forward a few more years and I'm doing another acoustic act with a friend and the old alvarez feels and sounds ... meh.
I'm generally a cheap bastard, so I trolled craigslist for a while and eventually found someone one town over selling a taylor big baby for $xx. I wasn't even sure what that was, but after being so impressed with my brothers 214ce I took the ride. The guitar was setup for slide, but even with the high action it blew away my alvarez. I bought it and played the crap out of it for a few years.
I ended up sanding down the saddle, adjusting the neck, and installing a pickup in the body. I still have this guitar hanging next to my bed on the wall. She's awesome with lots of pick rash around the soundhole.
Last year I decided to splurge on a really nice guitar. I went to the store and played everything they had (all brands). After several visits (including dragging my wife and friends to listen, and play while I listened) I settled on a 2016 814CE. Man ... this was the nicest looking, sounding, and playing guitar I ever laid hands on. The ES2 pickup plugged into a good PA just blew me away.
Well ... at this point I was basically hooked and obsessed with taylors and nice acoustics in general. Last month I picked up a GS mini Koa for when I travel. I love this little guitar too. The sound of the Koa compared to the other mini models really stood out to me (and the looks are awesome).
So now I'm pretty obsessed with Koa and I think I would like a full size guitar made from that wood.
I have my eyes on a 224ce dlx koa, but then part of me thinks I should just wait and save for a K66 or something similar.
Thanks for reading. Any thoughts/ideas on my next guitar are appreciated :)!
$, per forum rules
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Antsap,
Welcome to the Forum and nice insightful background story!
You've come to the right place to be enabled, so no one is likely to talk you out of a koa guitar! I would definitely recommend playing one or a few to get an idea of their sound (I'm assuming you are looking at all koa)? If you have a dealer nearby or a Taylor Road Show/Find Your Fit event, they almost always have koa guitars on hand.
I have been a big fan of koa since I found an all koa Martin back in '84. It is a hardwood akin to mahogany and takes awhile to break in and open up; some people give up on it early, so you can get some good deals used. There are a number of koa fans here so I'm sure they will weigh in as well.
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Welcome. Sounds like you will fit in nicely with us, bit by the Taylor bug. ;)
I'd definitely try as many guitars as possible, to see if the koa voice will work for you. Taylor koa's sound beautiful from the start, and then they do settle in a bit over time.
We can't discuss specific guitar prices here, per forum rules. So, I had to modify your original post for a couple prices.
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Welcome to the forum.
So a 12 string is always a nice choice for an alternative sound. The K66 would complement your 814ce very nicely if you have your heart set on koa. Happy hunting!
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Welcome to the UTGF! Nice to have you here. What a wonderful story you've shared with us!
Any thoughts/ideas on my next guitar are appreciated :) !
Lol--you will find out we LOVE to spend other people's money! ;) Have a great day. :)
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Welcome, and thanks for the backstory. Koa is very seductive, both in look and in sound.
For us to provide the best recommendations, perhaps it would be good to give us a little more information on your playing style or what type of music you play. The body shape of the guitar can make a difference depending if you like to play primarily fingerstyle, strumming, or some combination of both. I have two Koa guitars, one all koa and the other paired with a redwood top, and I find that some music is played better on one than the other. But the body shape is an important consideration.
If it were me (and quake17 is right on when he mentions our tendency to enable!), I would save up for a higher model than the 214. The K series is spectacular-- I am particularly drawn to the K22, as I play mostly fingerstyle. That series is going to cost you, but you'll get what you may want to play for years and years. And with Koa taking a while to really show its true colors, you'll want to keep it that long.
Best of luck, and please keep us posted.
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Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and advice.
I play a mixture of strumming, finger picking, and occasionally use a violin bow (just kidding).
I'm very curious to try the different body styles before purchasing another guitar. A 12 string koa is actually a great idea. This would make the two nice ones stand apart and serve different purposes.
I have two great music stores near me but when it comes to high end guitars they have a limited inventory. When the time comes I might travel to a location where I can really sit and play lots of different models (or even different examples of the same model). Not sure where that would be though :)
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If you play with a violin bow, I would stick with the mini. When I throw my Grand Auditorium up on my shoulder I have a hard time finding all the right strings.
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Alternative viewpoint: if you go koa, that 814ce tone will haunt you. 8) So I just say keep it in the decision mix as you review all things koa.
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Guitarsan ... I definitely want to hear more about what you mean. You think all Koa will leave me wanting for more of the rosewood / Sitka tone of my 814?
I've been banging on the gs mini Koa day after day. My family spent the weekend and we played lots of music. My father used the mini and I played the 814. Man ... after being away from it and playing something else I really do appreciate the tone, depth, and silk smooth playability of the 814.
I'd really like another dozen or so guitars :)
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The koa vs the rosewood would give you a nice contrast. I definitely see myself deciding which tone I want/need, given the circumstances. The variety of tones and body sizes makes my guitar world very enjoyable.
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In all transparency, I just purchased a Taylor 756 (spruce rosewood 12 string Grand Symphony), and I love it! Having said that, I believe that an all-koa 12 string Grand Symphony will still offer a nice contrasting sound to your 814: different size, shape, bracing and woods. Taylor has developed a knack over the years of producing great-sounding all koa guitars right out of the box (debunking the old adage that koa always sounds somewhat muted when new, taking a few years to break in), so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I own a 2014 K24 (all koa Grand Auditorium) that amazed me from day one and continues to do so. I know that there are others on this forum who have had similar experiences with all-koa Taylors.
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My 2-cents-worth on the Koa vs. East Indian Rosewood (EIR) comparison:
Owning both a Custom Grand Auditorium (GA) in Spruce/EIR (similar to your 814ce) and a K66ce myself, I can confirm what other forum members are saying about the two woods providing contrasting sound profiles. Your Spruce/EIR 814ce will have a relatively wider frequency response (more bass and treble) and be clearer-sounding by comparison; an all-Koa guitar will be 'smoother' and 'warmer,' with the focus more on the mid-range and treble frequencies. Toss in the 12 strings and the larger Grand Symphony (GS) body of the K66ce, and you'll have a distinctly different-sounding guitar than your 814ce -- and one that is somewhat unique in the land of 12-strings. The K66ce will not be as 'jangly' as, say, "SF's" Spruce/EIR 756 -- and certainly not as much as my Spruce/Maple 656ce; again, 'smooth' is word I largely associate with Koa guitars.
Still, a general word of advice when shopping for Koa-bodied guitars: play it before you buy it. As "SF" says, Taylor does a very good job of building Koa guitars that sound very good out of the box -- mostly. In my experience, Taylor's larger-body Koa guitars (I'm specifically thinking of the Jumbo [JM] and Grand Orchestra [GO] bodies) still have a tendency to sound muted to me. I'm basing that statement on experience in sampling a number of large-bodied Taylor guitars built using different Acacia species (Koa and Australian Blackwood) -- with both 6- and 12-string configurations -- specifically the Builder's Reserve VI (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/builders-reserve/series-vi), the K28e (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/k28e), and the 518e-FLTD (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/518e-fltd), and an all-Koa Custom GO-12. In contrast to the size of the guitars, all of these guitars sounded 'thin' to me; frankly, my K66ce sounded much more full -- even louder -- than that Custom GO-12. The first time I noted this 'muted' tendency, I dismissed it as the characteristics of one particular guitar; now, I'm not so sure. I have no way of saying whether this 'thin' or 'muted' voice will improve as the guitar breaks in; I've never personally stuck with one long enough to find out. The good news for you is I've not personally played an all-Koa Taylor using a GS or smaller body (i.e.,, the GA or GC) that displayed that 'muted' characteristic... So my working theory at the moment is that Koa (and it's cousin Acacia woods) just don't sound so good in Taylor's GO or JM guitar bodies -- at least not initially...
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Still, a general word of advice when shopping for Koa-bodied guitars: play it before you buy it. As "SF" says, Taylor does a very good job of building Koa guitars that sound very good out of the box -- mostly. In my experience, Taylor's larger-body Koa guitars (I'm specifically thinking of the Jumbo [JM] and Grand Orchestra [GO] bodies) still have a tendency to sound muted to me. I'm basing that statement on experience in sampling a number of large-bodied Taylor guitars built using different Acacia species (Koa and Australian Blackwood) -- with both 6- and 12-string configurations -- specifically the Builder's Reserve VI (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/builders-reserve/series-vi), the K28e (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/k28e), and the 518e-FLTD (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/518e-fltd), and an all-Koa Custom GO-12. In contrast to the size of the guitars, all of these guitars sounded 'thin' to me; frankly, my K66ce sounded much more full -- even louder -- than that Custom GO-12. The first time I noted this 'muted' tendency, I dismissed it as the characteristics of one particular guitar; now, I'm not so sure. I have no way of saying whether this 'thin' or 'muted' voice will improve as the guitar breaks in; I've never personally stuck with one long enough to find out. The good news for you is I've not personally played an all-Koa Taylor using a GS or smaller body (i.e.,, the GA or GC) that displayed that 'muted' characteristic... So my working theory at the moment is that Koa (and it's cousin Acacia woods) just don't sound so good in Taylor's GO or JM guitar bodies -- at least not initially...
I've had a similar experience, so there is something to it....
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Hello
Im new to this site.(Brand new,this is my 1st post) Not sure how to find proper place to post.
Im looking for info on 2007 414ce SL. Im told its koa bac & sides.
I really would like to hear from someone that has info.
Thx
Red
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I love koa.
I have an awesome K26ce that I will soon be selling, PM me if you are interested.
That said, keep in mind all, particularly koa, guitars sound different once they open up compared to how they sound new. Before a guitar opens up it tends to sound bright and feel tight. This is why manufacturers of fine wooden instruments (including guitars, violins and pianos) often let their wood age for decades before using it. It is also why good vintage guitars often have a tone and resonance that cannot be built into a new guitar. The theory, particularly with koa, as it is very fibrous (as seen in this Bob Taylor (koa is his favorite tone wood) video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXnvK8GkjY), is the wood fibers are tight and compressed when the guitar is new. The wood fibers in this condition are good for the strength of the tree but not good for tone. Over time, as the guitar is played, the vibration loosens and decompresses the wood fibers allowing them to move and resonate more, resulting in what is known as the guitar opening up. My experience is that it takes about 200 hours of playing time to get a guitar to fully open up. This is also dependent on the environment the guitar is kept in. Some people will put guitars in front of speakers and play music into them to open them up. There are also devices specifically made for this purpose. In my opinion, in almost all cases, a guitar sounds better (richer, warmer, evener, more musical) once it fully opens up. I actually think the opening up process is always ongoing and why well maintained vintage instruments often have an amazing resonance. Good luck.
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My new K-22 12 fret was bought without trying one first because there were no koa guitars in my area. I had played a K24 about a year ago and the impression it left stayed with me. We are fortunate to have a retailer like Sweetwater where I could purchase the guitar with a worry free return policy.
I expected my new K-22 to be more similar to my 522e 12 fret which I am shipping today to its new owner. I have totally enjoyed the 522 and the K-22 is very similar but with a more crystalline treble response. The two are very similar in balance and warmth. I do think the 522 has a fuller and deeper low end but the difference is slight and my expectation is the K-22 will continue to bloom on the low end with more playing time.
And the K-22 is completely different than my 812ce 12 fret. I like that and it's quite fun to play the same music with the two guitars and appreciate the different voicings.
Good luck on your search.
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For me it's the 700 series. You get lutz spruce, rosewood, and Koa binding. Such a tasteful combination of woods and outstanding tone.